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Thread: In city PVP problems... Fix this, it is unfair and very very frustrating.

  1. #1
    Telaran
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    Default In city PVP problems... Fix this, it is unfair and very very frustrating.

    If you are attacked in neutral cities, the guards will attack those who attacked you. The problem herein is that if you respond in your own defense by attacking them.... the guards go red to you as well. This is frustrating. I'm level 50, I should be able to defeat a level 45... even a couple of them. Normally I'd have no problem, but here they are camping my body inside the town, and they'll attack me, soon as they lose the aggro from the guards... if I attacked them back... then the guards all turn on me. This not only results in my death having 10 npcs whacking me, but they get the kill. This causes soul vitality loss. which at 50...is not fun to have to repeatedly pay for. This is a grief tactic. Fix the npcs... So guards only attack and aggro agressers and agresser support (heals etc). Otherwise sins with slip away can become a real nuisance even to higher levels in neutral cities/camps. Horrible design, it can't be intended to work this way.

  2. #2
    Ascendant Delphya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorentz Factor View Post
    If you are attacked in neutral cities, the guards will attack those who attacked you. The problem herein is that if you respond in your own defense by attacking them.... the guards go red to you as well. This is frustrating. I'm level 50, I should be able to defeat a level 45... even a couple of them. Normally I'd have no problem, but here they are camping my body inside the town, and they'll attack me, soon as they lose the aggro from the guards... if I attacked them back... then the guards all turn on me. This not only results in my death having 10 npcs whacking me, but they get the kill. This causes soul vitality loss. which at 50...is not fun to have to repeatedly pay for. This is a grief tactic. Fix the npcs... So guards only attack and aggro agressers and agresser support (heals etc). Otherwise sins with slip away can become a real nuisance even to higher levels in neutral cities/camps. Horrible design, it can't be intended to work this way.
    The answer is simple don't attack them; let the NPC's kill them.
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    pve players have already ruined world pvp, having them nerf it further just makes it so you may as well remove pvp from the game. If you play on a pvp server, then the risk is on you. take responsibility an dont ask devs to hold your hand. the soul loss at 50 is a pittance, even at1p by time i bother repairing it, its nothing. You cant be camped in rift, it is a impossibility. specially in town, res in a building or behind something, mount up an leave, done.
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    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tasogie View Post
    pve players have already ruined world pvp, having them nerf it further just makes it so you may as well remove pvp from the game. If you play on a pvp server, then the risk is on you. take responsibility an dont ask devs to hold your hand. the soul loss at 50 is a pittance, even at1p by time i bother repairing it, its nothing. You cant be camped in rift, it is a impossibility. specially in town, res in a building or behind something, mount up an leave, done.
    Someone nerfed your reading, perhaps you're just slow, I'll explain this better.


    I've no problem PVPing in a city. NONE at all. Infact I attack people in cities sometimes when I'm bored. The problem is that the guards respond to you defending yourself. Or worse, you're not even close to your party members and the guards attack you. EVEN worse is the soul vitality loss due to pvp fighting. This has nothing to do with PVP, I'm not wanting to stop in town pvp, I'm wanting to stop beiong penalized for defending yourself. Learn to read...it won't make you look stupid, I promise, because nothing I'm asking for here is nerfing pvp. It is like getting jumped in front of a police officer and pushing the guy away, only to be beat down by the cops who subsequently leave the one who attacked you alone. That makes zero sense.

  5. #5
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tasogie View Post
    pve players have already ruined world pvp, having them nerf it further just makes it so you may as well remove pvp from the game. If you play on a pvp server, then the risk is on you. take responsibility an dont ask devs to hold your hand. the soul loss at 50 is a pittance, even at1p by time i bother repairing it, its nothing. You cant be camped in rift, it is a impossibility. specially in town, res in a building or behind something, mount up an leave, done.
    This isn't PVE ruining PvP though. this is NPCs ruining PVP. Either have NPCs attack only the aggressor or have them attack no one (Even better if they want to keep the NPC attacks have them attack no one if the defender attacks back)

    Letting a lvl 45 gank a 50 and then let the guard finish the job isn't good PVP.

  6. #6
    Champion Phillip's Avatar
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    It's how Trion encourages PvP, amongst the many ways.
    The squeaky wheel gets the grease. Complain. Send feedback every time you die in a Titan's Strike or get one-shot by Blast Charge and are waiting to respawn. Complain in the forums. Start threads outside of the Mage forum. Actively discredit Warriors and Rogues who would keep us down. Don't try to be mature or the "good guy" and stay quiet. It never works. Rift Mage Forum Link

  7. #7
    Plane Touched
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    I think the better solution is to have more healers and graveyards available. Then people could actually run off from the campers to rez and heal. As it is, a rez run to another grave yard can be quite extensive. There's general goods vendors at every campfire, yet very few healers. It like Meridian and Sanctum have one mailbox each! why? We need more of all these service NPCs.

    I've avoided PvP servers because of crap like this. Now that I have a good handle on the game I may give it a shot.
    Probably the most difficult aspect of living in a free society is letting other people enjoy their freedom, their way.

  8. #8
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delphya View Post
    The answer is simple don't attack them; let the NPC's kill them.
    The npcs don't. Let me give an example. One that is going on at this very moment with my small group (2 people). There's 5 guardians standing over our bodies in sandaxle pit. We're dead in the little town. Soon as I rez, (rogue/bard) I can't heal much without attacking, so to keep from dying from their attacks I have to hit them back. Unfortunately, when I do that, I'm pretty close to some guards that have NOT aggro'd them... they killed the ones nearest that aggroed them already. So if I fire back so I can keep myself healed, the two guards start hitting me, faster than I can heal v. the large number of guardians and npcs...

    This isn't nerfing pvp, it is making it more valid. This is stupid as it currently is implemented because I am punished for participating. If I don't heal myself, I will die. The guards can't kill them..

    Just now I rezzed. My party and the guardians were well away from the town, but in sight. I rezzed, soon as I did.. guards attacked me. Even though my party was outside of the town and I didn't attack anything.

    This is a serious problem.

  9. #9
    Rift Chaser Rolotomasi's Avatar
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    i just hate rouge lose guard agro when they stealth in battle. gives those guard detect!

  10. #10
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Srqt View Post
    This isn't PVE ruining PvP though. this is NPCs ruining PVP. Either have NPCs attack only the aggressor or have them attack no one (Even better if they want to keep the NPC attacks have them attack no one if the defender attacks back)

    Letting a lvl 45 gank a 50 and then let the guard finish the job isn't good PVP.

    It seems, according to my combat log, that a pvp hit killed me. Yet I'm still losing soul vitality from it, because I'm under attack from a guard. This makes no sense. The whole situation of in-town / near town pvp is ******ed.

  11. #11
    Rift Master Carthoris's Avatar
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    This is a reported issue, although I don't know if Trion has addressed it or not. If you attack someone in a neutral town, then go and stand near/on top of an NPC and the player retaliates, your proximity to the NPC causes them to all attack the retaliating player while leaving you alone even if the NPC isn't hit. It's extremely broken right now.

  12. #12
    Plane Touched
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    oh, forgot to add. EvE-Online - best PvP out there- does this already. As long as you don't splash damage the cops only the offenders get taken down with extreme venegeance. They get more and more cops/guards popping in the longer it takes to down the offender. If the aggressor gets help/heals/repairs those guys go down too. A good corp might last a minute, but in civilized space, the offenders are going down no matter how many hundreds of new NPCs have to be warped in. Those were some interesting battles.

    The real problem is that you have to keep guards zone appropriate for when they get dragged into rifts and invasions. Smoke on that for awhile.
    Probably the most difficult aspect of living in a free society is letting other people enjoy their freedom, their way.

  13. #13
    Rift Master Carthoris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorentz Factor View Post
    It seems, according to my combat log, that a pvp hit killed me. Yet I'm still losing soul vitality from it, because I'm under attack from a guard. This makes no sense. The whole situation of in-town / near town pvp is ******ed.
    If you receive damage from any NPC at any time during the combat during which you die, you receive soul vitality loss.

  14. #14
    Shadowlander chrizburnz's Avatar
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    Default Trion, please fix neutral town guards.

    I completely agree with lorentz. This has nothing to do with nurfing or paying for soul vitality in my mind. When someone attacks you in a "neutral" town such as in The Chancel of Labors a sin can kill you before the guards arrive at the location. The point of a neutral town is supposed to be for a safe haven from world pvp where both factions can interact. I myself love pvp and will only ever play on a pvp server but this is something that needs to be fixed. Currently the guards will switch their main target to the person who recently made the attack. So lets say someone is attacking my friend and I'm try to heal them; the guards will then come after me and kill me. The sin can finish killing the friend while I'm being attacked and then slip away with out any penalty at all. Some people might respond with saying "then don't heal your friend." This is just an example and should not be taken as the only instance in which this happens.

    The guards should be made to where they only attack the first person to initiate the attack in their observing area, then reset going back to their post. If another action is made then they follow and attack that person, rinse and repeat.

    This would in no way hinder pvp because pvp should take place in the world, not in a "neutral" town. Otherwise what is the point of having guards that attack at all if you will get attacked defending yourself. The purpose of pvp is for it to be a challenge not to get a free kill because neutral town guards make the kill. I think the above is the best solution but at the very least it could even be made to where the guards did not attack at all, which would be better than the current situation.

    In response to the soul vitality part, if a toon is attacking a mob and then you get attacked by one of the opposite faction and they kill you soul vitality is lost no matter what. I also don't think this should be the case, however a solution could be that the reduction in soul vitality be applied based on the killing blow. If the killing blow is by one of the opposite faction than your toon should not lose soul vitality but if its of the mob that does the killing blow, than yes soul vitality should be reduced.
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  15. #15
    Plane Touched
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    P.P.S. In my early Diku coding days we learned that making the guards tough wasn't enough. People would camp the guards, never leave town. It had to be lots of guards - serious extreme predjudice - and as soon as one guard died, 5 more had to spawn. And, they had to hit uber hard. Diku was when we started using uber words in MMOs.
    Probably the most difficult aspect of living in a free society is letting other people enjoy their freedom, their way.

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