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Thread: Should a dps soul be equal to a healing soul?

  1. #1
    Rift Disciple
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    Default Should a dps soul be equal to a healing soul?

    Should damage from dps souls be comparable to the healing that healing souls put out? Because right now they are not equal. How many dps builds do you think it should take to put down a healer? Balance some things instead of making pvp crazy out of control.

    In the game right now people are playing more healers or wild dps like pyros. So if you cant out burst healers they dont die. Devs if you are going to investigate something ... investigate that. If you are going to nerf some people into the dirt like you did warriors and rogues ... do it to the last 2 classes as well.

  2. #2
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    A good, well-geared DPS puts out around 1K DPS in this game at this point in time.

    The average well-geared player has, what, 6K HP, 7K? Maybe a bit more as a warrior, but certainly not much more than that as a cleric or mage.

    Get two DPS on that healer and it should take you about 3 seconds to burn through their HP pool.

    Almost all stuns/silences in this game last 2 seconds or more.

    WAT DO?!

  3. #3
    Plane Touched
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isila View Post
    A good, well-geared DPS puts out around 1K DPS in this game at this point in time.

    The average well-geared player has, what, 6K HP, 7K? Maybe a bit more as a warrior, but certainly not much more than that as a cleric or mage.

    Get two DPS on that healer and it should take you about 3 seconds to burn through their HP pool.

    Almost all stuns/silences in this game last 2 seconds or more.

    WAT DO?!
    Look at this ****ing post. Just look at it.

    Here's a hint: a good, well geared DPS puts up 1k DPS raid buffed, on mobs kept stationary. That can't CC him.

    Here's a second hint: DPS is artificially scaled down in PvP. Look at your tooltips right now. Go into a warfront and look at them again.

  4. #4
    Plane Touched
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    Yes. If 1 healer cannot outheal 1 dps there would be no reason to be a healer. To put it simply, if DPS does 500 dam/sec, and you heal @ 400 dam/sec, then you are basically losing out on 100 dam/sec by choosing to play a healer rather than another DPS.

    And no, players in PvP are not doing 1k damage/sec. I can only assume you believe this via PvE raid parses, but that is obviously raid buffed players using DPS-optimized specs (i.e. no defenses) under conditions that are not applicable to PvP (standing still for 5+ minutes doing optimal rotations).

    People need to understand that "zomg everybody kill healer!" is not always the best strategy to kill a group of players. DPS'ing down overextended players or some other squishy target will put more pressure on a healer who is spec'ed very defensively than targeting the healer themselves. Once people start to realize this maybe there will be less complaining.

  5. #5
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    That's 1K DPS sustained over a several minute long fight. It's also not top end, as certain soul combos can pull out upwards of 1.2K.

    Burst DPS will be higher than that, and counteracts the effects of valor and bits of downtime when you're actively doing a kill attempt on a player. Of course you're not going to sustain 1K DPS for a long period of time in a PvP setting, but bursting for 5 seconds or so? Easily doable. Titan Blow says hi. Life and Death instant depravity proc says hi. Sanction Heretic says hi. Each of these abilities is instant and can crit well over 1K, not even factoring in any other dot damage that may be ticking.

    Killing a healer or healing target in MMO PvP systems like the kind Rift uses isn't about sustained damage over time, it's about burst. The DPS number was simply for convenience's sake.

    People need to understand that "zomg everybody kill healer!" is not always the best strategy to kill a group of players. DPS'ing down overextended players or some other squishy target will put more pressure on a healer who is spec'ed very defensively than targeting the healer themselves. Once people start to realize this maybe there will be less complaining.
    Also this. Stun/silence the healer and then burst down the target while heals are down. Pretty standard MMO PvP tactic.
    Last edited by Isila; 04-17-2011 at 02:12 AM.

  6. #6
    Champion of Telara
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    No? Because if 1 dps can kill a healer then pvp will never, ever, ever work? ******.
    Dancer/Yeah of Briarcliff

  7. #7
    Telaran
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    Absolutely not. If a healer is prey to any ole' DPS that comes around then why play a healer? You'll spend the entire match looking over your shoulder because if someone gets on you, not only can you not heal others, you can't heal yourself because you'll be dead soon.

    Two DPS should be able to take out a healer, assuming they're good at what they do. If they're awful, or the healer is exceptional, naw.

    A single DPS absolutely should be able to take out a healer if they're specifically set up to do so; heal debuffs, some CC to interrupt crucial heals, etc. If they can't, why even make a setup like that? You'd be wasting your specialized talents on a purpose you can't even fulfill.

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    I'm starting to really dislike WoW players coming to Rift. Go back to WoW, let Rift get the good players.

    I can kill every healer in the game, with any of the DPS specs in the game because I know how to spec CC in a second soul to accomplish what is needed.

    For that matter, my Paladin Champion build which does LESS DAMAGE, than DPS specs, and I absolutely destroy healers.

    I really am tired of bad players.


    MMORPG played: Everquest I, Dark Age of Camelot, Dungeons and Dragons Online, Everquest II, Aion, Warhammer Online, and Fallen Earth (BETA only).
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  9. #9
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    Something needs to be done about clerics because right now it takes way more than 2 dps to burn them down (even with healing debuff). If you are killing a cleric 1v1 or 2v1, most likely you are fighting a low rank or badly geared cleric. When they've rank 2-3 gears with the pvp soul, they are almost impossible to kill. Last night, I had a wf against 7 clerics, 5 mages and 3 rogues. They were just UNKILLABLE. We had 3 healers and 12 dps (mostly rogues + a few warrs and 1-2 mages). That just shouldn't happen. Clearly healers are > dps and whoever has more wins.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rell View Post
    Something needs to be done about clerics because right now it takes way more than 2 dps to burn them down (even with healing debuff). If you are killing a cleric 1v1 or 2v1, most likely you are fighting a low rank or badly geared cleric. When they've rank 2-3 gears with the pvp soul, they are almost impossible to kill. Last night, I had a wf against 7 clerics, 5 mages and 3 rogues. They were just UNKILLABLE. We had 3 healers and 12 dps (mostly rogues + a few warrs and 1-2 mages). That just shouldn't happen. Clearly healers are > dps and whoever has more wins.
    Signed and agreed.

    - Vybz
    Quote Originally Posted by Fia View Post
    I just want to be able to survive for 10 seconds when having 2 dps on me, I don't think that's too much to ask for.
    Dedicated to the Rogues who stuck it out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKoxTymkUTU
    Dedicated to the Rogue QQers and Haters: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owzhYNcd4OM

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rell View Post
    Something needs to be done about clerics because right now it takes way more than 2 dps to burn them down (even with healing debuff). If you are killing a cleric 1v1 or 2v1, most likely you are fighting a low rank or badly geared cleric. When they've rank 2-3 gears with the pvp soul, they are almost impossible to kill. Last night, I had a wf against 7 clerics, 5 mages and 3 rogues. They were just UNKILLABLE. We had 3 healers and 12 dps (mostly rogues + a few warrs and 1-2 mages). That just shouldn't happen. Clearly healers are > dps and whoever has more wins.
    You're lying, or just plain bad at playing your class.

    Any two DPS, that are good can take down any healer, UNLESS three healers are healing that ONE healer, than you need as many as FOUR DPS to take down ONE HEALER who is getting heals from THREE DIFFERENT SOURCES.

    In any 1v1 situation a Champion, Riftblade, Stormcaller, Pyro, Warlock/Necro and the list goes on can destroy a Cleric.

    I'm so sick of bad players spreading false rumors because they can't figure out how to play the game outside of PvE.


    MMORPG played: Everquest I, Dark Age of Camelot, Dungeons and Dragons Online, Everquest II, Aion, Warhammer Online, and Fallen Earth (BETA only).
    We all meet as equals on the battlefield, but we don't leave as such.
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  12. #12
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    More people need secondary specs with mana drains and heal reduction. Healers must be able to counter brute force if they are to have any purpose. To respond to this you then dismantle the healer's ability to sustain themselves and others. Even if that means slotting a secondary role to adapt to the changing battle.
    There is no better cause to fight than the simple need that blood be spilled. Do not fight because you receive reward or praise. Fight because that other bastard exists solely to die at the end of your blade.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by exLupo View Post
    More people need secondary specs with mana drains and heal reduction. Healers must be able to counter brute force if they are to have any purpose. To respond to this you then dismantle the healer's ability to sustain themselves and others. Even if that means slotting a secondary role to adapt to the changing battle.
    Precisely, these WoWbois who can PvE, don't know what it takes to PvP yet. So instead of learning, they cry nerf this, nerf that because I can't overcome it with my current build.

    I change my specs even now, and they're solid. I used to change them two, or even three times a day until I found what worked, and what didn't.

    I bet these guys are still using the specs they had at level 40.


    MMORPG played: Everquest I, Dark Age of Camelot, Dungeons and Dragons Online, Everquest II, Aion, Warhammer Online, and Fallen Earth (BETA only).
    We all meet as equals on the battlefield, but we don't leave as such.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Visions View Post
    You're lying, or just plain bad at playing your class.

    Any two DPS, that are good can take down any healer, UNLESS three healers are healing that ONE healer, than you need as many as FOUR DPS to take down ONE HEALER who is getting heals from THREE DIFFERENT SOURCES.

    In any 1v1 situation a Champion, Riftblade, Stormcaller, Pyro, Warlock/Necro and the list goes on can destroy a Cleric.

    I'm so sick of bad players spreading false rumors because they can't figure out how to play the game outside of PvE.
    Try being a rogue and kill that t2 geared Healing Cleric or Mage that just kites you all day and watch the damage you do get healed instantly or just mitigated completely. I'm sorry that you keep fighting those fresh 50s in 45+ greens and blues. I'm sure you really feel powerful when you see that 1300+ crit on an under geared player then come to forums and act like everyone else can't play but only you can. Soon you'll meet that one guy that actually has gear and specced well for PvP watch your crit turn into 500 to 600.

    We're not all from WoW, we're not all clickers and keyboard turners. What we are are the ones that have been pvping since head start. We're the ones that have been in WFs from day one and have seen the change in trends. We know the good players from the bad. So how is it fair 1 Cleric or Chloro can carry an entire team while 3+ of us beat on them with Anathema + Fell Blades; can a Bard do that much healing, damage, and have that survivability? Don't worry, once you see that one cleric with the tank shield on his back topping over 100k+ healing in a warfront as the only healer, then come back and talk; or maybe you're that one guy?

    - Vybz
    Last edited by Nightwish; 04-17-2011 at 11:51 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fia View Post
    I just want to be able to survive for 10 seconds when having 2 dps on me, I don't think that's too much to ask for.
    Dedicated to the Rogues who stuck it out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKoxTymkUTU
    Dedicated to the Rogue QQers and Haters: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owzhYNcd4OM

  15. #15
    Plane Touched
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dallan View Post
    Should damage from dps souls be comparable to the healing that healing souls put out? Because right now they are not equal. How many dps builds do you think it should take to put down a healer? Balance some things instead of making pvp crazy out of control.

    In the game right now people are playing more healers or wild dps like pyros. So if you cant out burst healers they dont die. Devs if you are going to investigate something ... investigate that. If you are going to nerf some people into the dirt like you did warriors and rogues ... do it to the last 2 classes as well.
    If one dps could cancel one healer there would be zero point in having healers. One healer should be able to heal the damage of 2-3 dps to make their existence worthwhile.

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