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Thread: As a Mage who wants fair PvP, I demand a nerf to 51 pyro souls and GoS

  1. #1
    Telaran
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    Default As a Mage who wants fair PvP, I demand a nerf to 51 pyro souls and GoS

    Let's face it: The play style involved in being a 51 pyro and sitting in your GoS, triggering Heat Wave and cleaning everything in a radius of 30m around you does not require any skill.

    Patch 1.1 brings a lot of required downtuning to AoE heal, Sab and Champions and a lot required uptuning to mages. But these changes also implicitly buff this abomination of a build who's amount of faceroll easily is on par with a sab. My request to Trion: Buff Damage output of mages in general, reward spending points in multiple souls, nerf going full pyro because of lack of skill.

  2. #2
    Soulwalker
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    The dominance of the GoS pyromancer partly has to do with the preference of warriors for the broken, cookie-cutter Champ/Para build to maximize dps, which is easily countered by the Pyro/Archmage damage reduction. The upcoming patch addresses some of these issues. Hopefully warriors will diversify some, meaning you should see more VKs eating your buffs and mana, so you can't continue this stun nonsense. That's assuming no-one finds a new exploit and promotes a new cookie-cutter to the warrior forums. They do have the tools to counter you, though; most just don't understand their souls well enough to use them.
    Last edited by Malachi Stone; 03-24-2011 at 12:33 PM.

  3. #3
    General of Telara Sarathor's Avatar
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    51 Dominator is also pretty hilarious.

    You see your group going against another group, you get full charge, cast draining presence, and then lol as the enemy group goes to doing 100% less damage and healing.

    And the best part is that you can toggle it for increased duration, you still run out eventually, but when it only lasts 6 seconds, and you cast it, get a couple buffs on them, turn it off, cast an instant for more charge, toggle it back on before the timers run off, and watch as it continues stacking up.

    I did this to a warlock in a wf yesterday. He was trying to kill someone and I was just toggling it off and on and watched the debuff stay at 10 stacks, it was lol worthy.

    Sarathor@Byriel Rank 7 Defiant Mage - retired
    Bonqueequee@Byriel Rank 1 Guardian Rogue

  4. #4
    Champion of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarathor View Post
    51 Dominator is also pretty hilarious.

    You see your group going against another group, you get full charge, cast draining presence, and then lol as the enemy group goes to doing 100% less damage and healing.

    And the best part is that you can toggle it for increased duration, you still run out eventually, but when it only lasts 6 seconds, and you cast it, get a couple buffs on them, turn it off, cast an instant for more charge, toggle it back on before the timers run off, and watch as it continues stacking up.

    I did this to a warlock in a wf yesterday. He was trying to kill someone and I was just toggling it off and on and watched the debuff stay at 10 stacks, it was lol worthy.
    It recharges on turn off, i thought it worked that way too and it does not.

    I use draining presence on Control/Damage and Reflective presence on ChloroLOL/Dom
    Last edited by Dominmatric; 03-24-2011 at 12:52 PM.
    TL;DR
    Switching to a different profession is no different than starting a new role at 50, Easily learned. Might as well start at Rank 1 PvP on PvP servers.


    Also, the tab targeting needs to be fixed with two things.
    1.) It has no real selected cycle through the enemies in los, it goes randomly through them, it also prioritizes pets.
    2.)It will sometimes tab through, say, 2 pets 6 times (meaning three rotations for two pets) while enemies that are players are in los, it will do this for player targets too (targeting is random with no kind of tab rythm/cycle/order to go through almost full teams of enemies in los). Give players numbers before their names depending on where they are located at in their raid, and let all people know and see these numbers, and tab cycles through those numbers in order to all enemies in range. Then pets if no players are in range.
    3.)I also think minor obstructions that shouldn't, do play a role in who you can tab target, which adds up with the previous problems making it become complicated to target at times.
    http://forums.riftgame.com/showthrea...ght=imageshack

    Thank you for pretty much fixing the nearest target button, it's noticeable.

  5. #5
    Prophet of Telara
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    Void Knight.

  6. #6
    Ascendant
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malachi Stone View Post
    The dominance of the GoS pyromancer partly has to do with the preference of warriors for the broken, cookie-cutter Champ/Para build to maximize dps, which is easily countered by the Pyro/Archmage damage reduction. The upcoming patch addresses some of these issues. Hopefully warriors will diversify some, meaning you should see more VKs eating your buffs and mana, so you can't continue this stun nonsense. That's assuming no-one finds a new exploit and promotes a new cookie-cutter to the warrior forums. They do have the tools to counter you, though; most just don't understand their souls well enough to use them.
    If there is a one-shot burst build for a calling, people will roll that one-shot burst build. Huge sab crit bursts from Blast Charge were the result of an armor pen bug. Warriors were never one-shotting anyone but a lot of their damage came from an armor pen bug and people don't like being stunned. As far as we know, there is no bug associated with the damage pyros are putting out right now and the stuns are apparently just fine. So if all the changes in alpha go live, it'll be about a week before the boards are flooded with "NERF PYRO!!" QQ and then it'll probably be assassin/bladedancer or some other such melee rogue build that gets buffed through the roof. I'm really not interested in this merry-go-round style of PvP balancing that calls for "OP" builds to be buffed into mediocrity while creating "OP" builds out of the callings that cried the most about how useless they were even when they already had the potential to be one of the most devastating opponents on the field.

  7. #7
    General of Telara Sarathor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dominmatric View Post
    It recharges on turn off, i thought it worked that way too and it does not.

    I use draining presence on Control/Damage and Reflective presence on ChloroLOL/Dom
    That's what I mean, an example

    say you have 100 charge

    cast draining presence, let it run to about 50ish charge

    turn it off

    cast one spell, an instant would be best for more charge

    turn it back on before the 6 seconds is up, and if they perform an action, which they usually do, then it will stack another and refresh the duration.

    rinse and repeat, and most groups will just die off because of the lack of damage. I have done this, and if I may make a video on it. It's just that I'll get focused a lot when I abuse it, lol, and I'm defiant, so no healers for my shard group.

    Sarathor@Byriel Rank 7 Defiant Mage - retired
    Bonqueequee@Byriel Rank 1 Guardian Rogue

  8. #8
    Rift Disciple Laiboch's Avatar
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    While I agree that there are builds that need to be nerfed I also agree that nerfing class A then over buffing class B is just as bad as leaving over powered classes in game.

    There are a few realities though. Several rogue builds are doing far less damage than intended. Rogues are a DPS class in general and right now they are more like an annoying DoT that wont go away till you swat it down.

    The good thing is that they are looking at balance as a whole and starting to work on it, and the more honest feedback we can give the better the game will be for everyone. While its fun to be a PVP power house it is much more fun to have a good balance where you have to use skill and not just spam 2 keys.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarathor View Post
    That's what I mean, an example

    say you have 100 charge

    cast draining presence, let it run to about 50ish charge

    turn it off

    cast one spell, an instant would be best for more charge

    turn it back on before the 6 seconds is up, and if they perform an action, which they usually do, then it will stack another and refresh the duration.

    rinse and repeat, and most groups will just die off because of the lack of damage. I have done this, and if I may make a video on it. It's just that I'll get focused a lot when I abuse it, lol, and I'm defiant, so no healers for my shard group.
    It recharges on turn off for me.
    TL;DR
    Switching to a different profession is no different than starting a new role at 50, Easily learned. Might as well start at Rank 1 PvP on PvP servers.


    Also, the tab targeting needs to be fixed with two things.
    1.) It has no real selected cycle through the enemies in los, it goes randomly through them, it also prioritizes pets.
    2.)It will sometimes tab through, say, 2 pets 6 times (meaning three rotations for two pets) while enemies that are players are in los, it will do this for player targets too (targeting is random with no kind of tab rythm/cycle/order to go through almost full teams of enemies in los). Give players numbers before their names depending on where they are located at in their raid, and let all people know and see these numbers, and tab cycles through those numbers in order to all enemies in range. Then pets if no players are in range.
    3.)I also think minor obstructions that shouldn't, do play a role in who you can tab target, which adds up with the previous problems making it become complicated to target at times.
    http://forums.riftgame.com/showthrea...ght=imageshack

    Thank you for pretty much fixing the nearest target button, it's noticeable.

  10. #10
    Shield of Telara BlackUdder's Avatar
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    Agreed with OP. I find it hilarious that they felt the need to utterly destroy the Sab, yet buff the Pyro.

    Shows me right there that Trion have zero experience with endgame PVP, and are just listening/overreacting to the QQ's in the level 30 bracket.

    Oh well, if they do go ahead with this patch it won't be long before Mages become the new FOTM, and the nerf cries quickly lock on.
    Last edited by BlackUdder; 03-24-2011 at 02:13 PM.

  11. #11
    Telaran
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    Ppppssshhhhh this thread is about 51 pyro. Make your own thread about 51 dom.

    That said, I don't think that it's hilarious or OP. The facts that you're 51 dom, need to build a lot of charge before you can start, and constantly switching presence mean that you do not do much healing or damage for your team. If you play against good players, they will simply wait 6 seconds to let the stacks tick off and continue business and everything you have built up to was to no avai or only of limited util. Also, to pull it off, there's at least a bit of timing and skill required. If you get cc'd for only 4 or 5 seconds all your stacks are gone.

    OT: Void Knights. Yeah. Their Mana Drain is OP too. Nerf that too.
    Last edited by Keifu; 03-24-2011 at 02:20 PM.

  12. #12
    Rift Master Arcticred's Avatar
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    Dont know if anyone else has noticed this, but winning a level 50 Warfront now depends on who has the most mages stood on GoS.

    from level 10 > 49 it was who had the most warriors, now its who has the most mages, im wondering if this is intended. Stratedgy has gone out of the window, if team A has 3 mages on GoS locking down flags, and team B only has 2 then team A wins every time.

    This wouldnt be the case as much in premade groups, but lets be honest here, 90% of WF's are PUG's.
    Reading the 1.1 patch notes it seems that these same mages are getting buffed so the discrepency will be even larger. I have held out high hopes from day one for this game but i realy dont know any more.

    I like playing games for the fun, the thrill, having a laugh. But i fail to find anything thrilling or fun with the way WF's are controlled atm, and things are gonna get worse from looking at 1.1 patch notes.
    I realy hope im wrong here and this isnt a QQ in any way shape or form, just an observation.

    If there was a counter to these mages then i would be 100% fine with it, but the only counter a rogue has is on a 2min CD in the infiltrator tree.
    Last edited by Arcticred; 03-24-2011 at 02:23 PM.
    http://www.siglaunch.com/sigs/any/2/2/3/7/7/4322377PXOFX.png Only the dead have seen the end of war

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackUdder View Post
    Agreed with OP. I find it hilarious that they felt the need to utterly destroy the Sab, yet buff the Pyro.

    Shows me right there that Trion have zero experience with endgame PVP, and are just listening/overreacting to the QQ's in the level 30 bracket.

    Oh well, if they do go ahead with this patch it won't be long before Mages become the new FOTM, and the nerf cries quickly lock on.
    They need to buff the mage.

    IDK as far as pyro goes though, i never use it.
    TL;DR
    Switching to a different profession is no different than starting a new role at 50, Easily learned. Might as well start at Rank 1 PvP on PvP servers.


    Also, the tab targeting needs to be fixed with two things.
    1.) It has no real selected cycle through the enemies in los, it goes randomly through them, it also prioritizes pets.
    2.)It will sometimes tab through, say, 2 pets 6 times (meaning three rotations for two pets) while enemies that are players are in los, it will do this for player targets too (targeting is random with no kind of tab rythm/cycle/order to go through almost full teams of enemies in los). Give players numbers before their names depending on where they are located at in their raid, and let all people know and see these numbers, and tab cycles through those numbers in order to all enemies in range. Then pets if no players are in range.
    3.)I also think minor obstructions that shouldn't, do play a role in who you can tab target, which adds up with the previous problems making it become complicated to target at times.
    http://forums.riftgame.com/showthrea...ght=imageshack

    Thank you for pretty much fixing the nearest target button, it's noticeable.

  14. #14
    Shadowlander Leoric12's Avatar
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    I realy wouldnt mind losing the GoS stun(i run 51pyro/10lock/5archmage on Whitefall)
    RIFT: Tharizdun - Pyro51/archmage15/dom0 - Whitefall. PR6 since 29/04/11.
    WoW: Bael - Warlock - Dragonbligth
    Warhammer: Tharizdun - Magus - Karak-Azgal, Yurtrus - Shaman - Karak-Azgal, Semuanya - White Lion - Karak-Azgal.

    Warhammer Solo PvP Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2elujlQJdVA

  15. #15
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keifu View Post
    Let's face it: The play style involved in being a 51 pyro and sitting in your GoS, triggering Heat Wave and cleaning everything in a radius of 30m around you does not require any skill.

    Patch 1.1 brings a lot of required downtuning to AoE heal, Sab and Champions and a lot required uptuning to mages. But these changes also implicitly buff this abomination of a build who's amount of faceroll easily is on par with a sab. My request to Trion: Buff Damage output of mages in general, reward spending points in multiple souls, nerf going full pyro because of lack of skill.

    only curious wich class u are playing?class soul.. same thing

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