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Thread: 4 reasons why Rifts warfronts/PvP is an abysmal failure

  1. #1
    Plane Walker
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    Default 4 reasons why Rifts warfronts/PvP is an abysmal failure

    The problems with Rift's Warfront PvP is as follows:
    1 - A player should never lose control of his/her character through CC for an extended period of time. Its just not fun to get CCed and be killed before CC wears off, only to wait 20 seconds to respawn, then spend 3-4 seconds rebuffing yourself, then spend 15-20 seconds running back to the action, only be to immediately CCed and killed in 4 seconds again.
    2 - A player should never be able to be killed outright, or have their health cut in half (or more), during the duration of CC, by just one attacking player (e.g. player A CCs player B, then while B is stunned A is able to kill him or drop his health by >50% before the CC wears off). PvP should be about tactics and strategy, not who has the most classes that can perma CC and/or 3-4 shot the opposing team.
    3 - When the average health of a max level player is ~4-5k, and you have a few souls that have instant cast attacks that can easily burn through that much health in 2-4 hits you have a severe imbalance between damage output and survivability.
    4 - You violated the cardinal rule of PvP class balance. Ranged classes should have low survivability, but high burst damage or medium burst damage and ample kiting/escape abilities. Melee classes should have high(er) survivability but low to medium burst damage and should be vulnerable to being kited. As it stands, you gave some melee classes high survivability, high burst damage, and too many tools to keep ranged classes in melee range.

    I hope to see some of these gross errors in Warfront/PvP design rectified in the near future if you hope to keep players interested in warfronts and PvP.

  2. #2
    Telaran
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    Agree totally.

  3. #3
    Rift Disciple
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    So basically you're complaining that because one PvE focused MMO (WoW) set a standard for PvP and now Rift has turned it on it's head in a sense you can't handle it? Try harder please.

    Oh and I am a Champ.
    Last edited by Acerbitas; 03-22-2011 at 03:25 PM.
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  4. #4
    Telaran
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    I'm a chloro and think your post is an abysmal failure. If you're dying that fast in cc, then, there's something wrong with your build and/or you.

    And, I personally love this one, "You violated the cardinal rule of PvP class balance."

    Where and when did this rule come out? I did not get the memo.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acerbitas View Post
    So basically you're complaining that because one PvE focused MMO (WoW) set a standard for PvP and now Rift has turned it on it's head in a sense you can't handle it? Try harder please.

    Oh and I am a Champ.
    Huh? That doesn't even make sense.

    WoW's PvP isn't the "Standard", it's the line in the sand. It's mediocre.

    The goal from Rift SHOULD have been to jump over that level set, but instead they decided to limbo under it.
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  6. #6
    Plane Touched
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    To answer the OP:

    1.) Why not?
    2.) Why not?
    3.) Why?
    4.) Why?

    If you show up with a terrible spec in quest greens and don't press your buttons, you should be killed inside of CC. This should be done to you until you quit. Plenty of players have discovered specs and gear that result in them not being killed inside of CC (pyro stun with no DR is a bug and should be fixed). You should too, or quit.
    Last edited by k9quaint; 03-22-2011 at 03:31 PM.

  7. #7
    Shadowlander
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    While I disagree with this thread completely number 4 I found amusing. If you really look at the class forums every class has another class that they complain about being overpowered due to their burst/surv. Actually I feel kind of bad for clerics. According to what I have read they are the only class that cannot one shot someone. And since according to the forums WFs are just a bunch of people running around one shotting people they have no one to heal.

  8. #8
    Champion of Telara
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    You guys have got CC completely backwards in what you are asking.

    CC should last a long time. Otherwise it's useless. However, once it is broken you should be given a time of immunity so that you can't be chain CC'd.

    It should always break on damage - giving immunity, except for stun. Unlike the other forms of CC that last a long time, a stun should be VERY SHORT(due to being able to take damage). Like 5 seconds max, and that should be on a long CD - or have requirements like stealth and paralyzing strike, 2 seconds most times - especially for a warrior type(they really shouldn't have any, unless they are defensive in nature).

    The short CC's completely remove group strategy from the game. If you can't CC 1 person and kill the one next to him, then CC is not much use at all.

    In this game, there is too much CC, but for the complete opposite reason. It's very short, and you get spammed with it over and over. The DR doesn't seem to do much at all, or is a personal DR which means you can be "CC'd to death".

    Being "CC'd to death" is what you are really complaining about, and you are right there. But CC has a good place in this games when done right. Not this spammable mess we have now, where you can't even CC and then work as a group correctly.

  9. #9
    Shadowlander Kato Khan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acerbitas View Post
    So basically you're complaining that because one PvE focused MMO (WoW) set a standard for PvP and now Rift has turned it on it's head in a sense you can't handle it? Try harder please.

    Oh and I am a Champ.
    LMFAO

    "Oh and I am a Champ." Nuff said. Warrior with High Health, High Armor, several cc removals AND can stun and insta kill people before stun wears off. Of course you think its balanced.

    Players should have to make choices...

    Either you stealth and ambush (doing at max half the avg persons health from your ambush) OR
    You have a CC ability OR
    You can inst jump to someone OR
    You can Insta pull someone to you OR


    You get the idea going here ?

    As it is the game is turning into more and more Sabos and Champs.

    If nothing is done to address the OPs concerns this will be another warhammer and fail within 60 days.
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  10. #10
    Shadowlander Kato Khan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by k9quaint View Post
    To answer the OP:

    1.) Why not?
    2.) Why not?
    3.) Why?
    4.) Why?

    If you show up with a terrible spec in quest greens and don't press your buttons, you should be killed inside of CC. This should be done to you until you quit. Plenty of players have discovered specs and gear that result in them not being killed inside of CC (pyro stun with no DR is a bug and should be fixed). You should too, or quit.
    1. Because being CC'd then insta killed while CC'd is NOT FUN especially when it happens damn near constantly.

    2. Because being one shotted by someone spamming 2 buttons with no strategy is NOT FUN.
    Most of us mature PvPers like a challenge. We like having to put our strats against others, our player skill vs others. As it is, there are combos out there that do not take skill. Its 2-3 button I wins.

    3. I agree whole heartedly. Fights are over too fast. A simple "temporary" fix is once you zone into a warfront add 10K hitpoints to each character. This would help with the insta kills and force a little more strat usage.

    4. This one honestly I do not agree with. I like the idea of classes being able to set up how they want. BUT that being said there should be trade offs. The more damage you do the less health you should have. The more armor you have the less resistances you should have, The further the range is of your weapon the slower it should shoot or the more chance of missing you should have. If you can shoot/cast while moving then the dmg should be alot lower than the higher casting time no mobility spells/shots. Having souls that can "do it all" is just wrong. Unless your goal is just having 20 champions running around willy nilly
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  11. #11
    Kso
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    Quote Originally Posted by perlfreak View Post
    You guys have got CC completely backwards in what you are asking.

    CC should last a long time. Otherwise it's useless. However, once it is broken you should be given a time of immunity so that you can't be chain CC'd.

    It should always break on damage - giving immunity, except for stun. Unlike the other forms of CC that last a long time, a stun should be VERY SHORT(due to being able to take damage). Like 5 seconds max, and that should be on a long CD - or have requirements like stealth and paralyzing strike, 2 seconds most times - especially for a warrior type(they really shouldn't have any, unless they are defensive in nature).

    The short CC's completely remove group strategy from the game. If you can't CC 1 person and kill the one next to him, then CC is not much use at all.




    In this game, there is too much CC, but for the complete opposite reason. It's very short, and you get spammed with it over and over. The DR doesn't seem to do much at all, or is a personal DR which means you can be "CC'd to death".

    Being "CC'd to death" is what you are really complaining about, and you are right there. But CC has a good place in this games when done right. Not this spammable mess we have now, where you can't even CC and then work as a group correctly.
    100% Agree!

  12. #12
    Soulwalker
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    Agree. A warrior ideal is that they have stronger armour, have better defences. So in turn they are able to survive more but are limited in output. A mage type class is the opposite. They should do nasty damage but have limited survivability. This is usually offset by abilities to give them reprieve (like slows, stuns or damage reduction/immunity cool downs). Now warriors need some ability to bring ranged enemy into melee range, or risk perma-kite which is no fun, or have some ability to escape slows for a time, or an ability to bring them to the target.

    No class should be able to do >50% of target's health in less than 2 seconds, regardless of cool downs. This should only happen in special circumstances.

    This game seems to be going way of burst pvp, rather than tactical pvp. Pick a target and burst, pick a target and burst, get burst and respawn. Not saying that can't work but if that is the way it is then everyone needs burst like that, or some classes need counters to it. However the counters have to have a weakness (very strong survivability to live through a burst but very low DPS), which ends up being not really fun for many.

    or TL;DR
    Dying in 2 seconds while having being CCed for 10 is very, very un-fun. Unless you can do it yourself, where you put up with it because you can do it too. PvP devolves to burst only classes, excluding others that play for challenge or fun.

  13. #13
    Rift Master Arcticred's Avatar
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    There should always be a trade off between DPS and Survivability.

    If you want to be a glass cannon and 1-3 shot people, thats fine by me. But the trade off has to be the fact that you are a glass cannon.

    At the moment we have mages standing on GoS taking little to no damage while they lock down whole areas of a WF, surely stratedgy would dictate that this is where an assassin would come in and take out the glass cannon mage, but this doesnt work because this same nuking mage also is immune to ALL CC and takes little to no damage from melee assaulting him.

    Where is the stratedgy here? There is none.

    Champs are the same, they are the best toe to toe fighters in a WF, they have the most CC and CC breakers and on top of all this only a mage beats them for ranged DPS aswell.

    I see alot of crying about Sabs aswell, but here is the deal. Sabs are the true definition of a glass cannon. They can output tremendous DPS if alowed to, but they are so easily countered its a joke. And that is the way it should be.
    Imagine a Sab with GoS lol. Or immagine a Sab with a fear, root, dissarm, full heal, plate armor, charge, perfect timing. All DPS rogues are glass cannons. And imo if you want to be the DPS equivelent of a Sab in your chosen calling then so should you.
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  14. #14
    Plane Touched SwordSaint's Avatar
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    The thing about Sabs is they have ranged attack skills and several CCs to keep melee away. Any melee without some sort of way to get to the Sab quickly will die. That plus they top DPS almost everytime.

    Click 3 buttons and win.

    When I piss people off in WFs they hop on their Sabs. Thats when you know theres something wrong.
    Me killing you in your WFs
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  15. #15
    Rift Disciple weker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godzillamax View Post
    The problems with Rift's Warfront PvP is as follows:
    1 - A player should never lose control of his/her character through CC for an extended period of time. Its just not fun to get CCed and be killed before CC wears off, only to wait 20 seconds to respawn, then spend 3-4 seconds rebuffing yourself, then spend 15-20 seconds running back to the action, only be to immediately CCed and killed in 4 seconds again.
    2 - A player should never be able to be killed outright, or have their health cut in half (or more), during the duration of CC, by just one attacking player (e.g. player A CCs player B, then while B is stunned A is able to kill him or drop his health by >50% before the CC wears off). PvP should be about tactics and strategy, not who has the most classes that can perma CC and/or 3-4 shot the opposing team.
    3 - When the average health of a max level player is ~4-5k, and you have a few souls that have instant cast attacks that can easily burn through that much health in 2-4 hits you have a severe imbalance between damage output and survivability.
    4 - You violated the cardinal rule of PvP class balance. Ranged classes should have low survivability, but high burst damage or medium burst damage and ample kiting/escape abilities. Melee classes should have high(er) survivability but low to medium burst damage and should be vulnerable to being kited. As it stands, you gave some melee classes high survivability, high burst damage, and too many tools to keep ranged classes in melee range.

    I hope to see some of these gross errors in Warfront/PvP design rectified in the near future if you hope to keep players interested in warfronts and PvP.
    agree only with "too many tools to keep ranged classes in melee range. " other then that if you have probs getting CCed to much take skills that put you out of it. not hard at all.
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