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Thread: Crowd control

  1. #46
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Visions View Post
    I view PvP like I viewed the thousands, yes I said thousands of fist fights, boxing matches, and wrestling matches I got into, in high school. Skill was measured by how fast you could move, how hard you could hit, how many hits you could take before going down, ETCETERA. Sure you could grapple, but generally in a street fight this put you in range of eye gouges, biting, nut grabbers, and many other means of pain that could be put onto you.

    A PvP FIGHT should never be about how well you use your abilities to counter your opponent, not, who CCs first, or MOST wins.

    I want to fight, not sit there and watch the fight progress, because I didn't pick the better CC class, or build.

    A-EFFIN-MEN, thats exactly RIGHT! TRION ARE YOU THERE? this man said it in a NUTSHELL!

  2. #47
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    It would be so easy to come to this thread and join in the QQ and crymore over crowd control rogue stuns long warrriors stun and then the fears silences etc etc oh the joys. but that would mean following the same route as WoW and that just ruined the game everyone the same ended up as a joke, and I would not like to see that or the problems associated with trying to balance the classes and souls trees we have.

    There is a way to balance the CC and anyother part of the classes for that matter without even touching a soul tree and unbalancing the PvE component of the game and that would be to use the PvP soul as a bolt on to the other. It only affacts pvp and hence would not affect the PvE and would only then benefit those people who play pvp on a more regular basis. give the points for the pvP soul via the PvP its self. points gained via a combination of Favor earned kills made wrafront won PvP ranks gained and warfronts entered.

    You will notice I didnto include world pvp because, warfronts are entered by both pve and pvp shards which would bias the system towards pvp shards as they get more world pvp then do pve shards.

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  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fellknight View Post
    Skill in pvp is countering other teams CC and using your CC to take out there healers. Right now I've never seen a BG where more CCer's meant a win over more healers. And if healing is so effective right now it's because CC isn't effective.

    No you should not be able to grab every dps soul and then get an item to make up for what your souls lack. There are already a TON of interupt, silence and stun abilities as well as knockout abilities in many souls. I'm sorry your plate wearing dps grind raid warrior gets CC'd all over but thats more a build issue then a game design flaw.

    This.

    I've been an avid PvPer in Rift since head-start and as I've gotten higher in level (lvl 49 right now) of course the amount of CC increased. At first, it did seem a bit too much, but now that i've gotten a grip on my OWN CC abilities, its become more skill now. Knowing what type of CC to use when. Sure, they don't last very long, but that do give me an advantage temporary as it may be.

    I'm happy with the level of CC that the game has in WFs atm.
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  4. #49
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    With all of the complaining about crowd control, people forget one thing, at the end of the battle one side wins and one side loses.It's a wash, it's about doing to them as they do to you, the capabilities are there for all of us.
    Once again, someone wins and someone loses as it would be if crowd control didn't exist in the game.

  5. #50
    Plane Walker Zantetsuken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenixfire82 View Post
    The problem isn't so much the CC, as it is the AOE CC, imo. Mindless/Random CC IS a problem and should be dealt with. There's GoS stun, AoE fear, AoE Silence, AoE mez, AoE snare, AoE knockback etc etc it's just too much. On the other hand, as someone who mainly pvps as a stormcaller, I hate when I enter a fray, a champion charges me, I live through stun use my knockback/root which is the only thing that may save me, and "immune"-but then he's likely immune cause he just ate 10 aoe ccs in quick succession, so yea, still, aoe CC is the problem imo.
    As far as I know, knockbacks don't DR. He is likely Immune from using Path of the Mountain, a Paragon buff (20 point root ability I think it is) that makes them Immune to all knockbacks.
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  6. #51
    Plane Walker Zantetsuken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cern View Post
    Speaking of which, it's a bit of a paradox to me that with so much CC in the game, the rogue soul which is supposed to be the support soul (Bard) has some of the weakest CC. Bard mezz is very short duration and seems easily resisted or broken and they have no other means of escape. Bard mezz should have the same duration as mage Transmogrify, especially since a Bard has to spec heavily into their line to get mezz while all mages can have Transmogrify for zero points invested in the Dominator line.
    That's a bit of a stretch, 0 point Transmogrify is rubbish, it has a cast time, a CD, and it breaks on damage. Dominator's have to invest a lot of points to make it instant cast, no CD and to be able to resist a lot of damage before breaking.
    Last edited by Zantetsuken; 03-28-2011 at 07:52 AM.
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  7. #52
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    I have to agree with most on this thread.


    There is just a ridiculously high amount of CC in Rift warfronts. I am usually, silenced, stunned, feared, or otherwise not able to do anything at all roughly 75% of the time I'm in combat. One break free on a long cooldown is not nearly enough. It's almost entirely sapped my will to queue anymore.

    I don't care if I win or lose when it's not fun to begin with. It's not fun because I can't do anything most of the time. Pretty much PvE only from now on for me. At lower levels, it was still fun since not everyone had their abilities, but lvl 50 PvP is basically nothing but CC spam and dying while having no control over your character. I can do some of it to others too, but I hate the premise in the first place, even when I'm doing it.

  8. #53
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    Sorry I for one think they need to do something to make CC LESS useful in PvP, be it a global DR or a player immunity after so many CC's. Otherwise PvP is ONLY going to be playable by CC classes and basically destroy PvP as a whole. A player should not be silenced, stunned, squirreled, silenced, stunned, squirreled repeatedly in a matter of 2 seconds. No offense, but that is just stupid. Unless you want to see no classes besides mages and Warroirs in PvP this needs to change IMMEDIATELY. Queues are already bad enough and if this keeps going the avenue it is, you might as well delete the Warfronts and make every server a PvE server. There needs to be a point where people say enough is enough and I think the time to speak up is now.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nekro View Post
    Sorry I for one think they need to do something to make CC LESS useful in PvP, be it a global DR or a player immunity after so many CC's. Otherwise PvP is ONLY going to be playable by CC classes and basically destroy PvP as a whole. A player should not be silenced, stunned, squirreled, silenced, stunned, squirreled repeatedly in a matter of 2 seconds. No offense, but that is just stupid. Unless you want to see no classes besides mages and Warroirs in PvP this needs to change IMMEDIATELY. Queues are already bad enough and if this keeps going the avenue it is, you might as well delete the Warfronts and make every server a PvE server. There needs to be a point where people say enough is enough and I think the time to speak up is now.
    Rift is structured at organized play.

    Yes, YOU only have 1 cc break every couple minuted. But EVERY healing build has some sort of cleanse ability. Some are better than others, its true, but if you see a friend feared, you can dispel. Same for polymorph silence, and some stuns.

    Problem is that clerics aren't well represented in pvp. And they did it to themselves!

    First wf: Moron cleric doesn't heal in wf...rest of team sees this and hates cleric. Why protect a jerk who doesn't heal or dispel and fails at dps?

    Next wf: Another cleric shows up, he wants to heal but the team is still mad at last cleric. Why protect a jerk who doesn't heal or dispel? Cleric gets focused and dies. Cleric quits PvP.

    Clerics need to l2dispell. Players need to l2protectcleric.

    WoW! CC isn't an issue anymore!

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peligrad View Post
    Rift is structured at organized play.

    Yes, YOU only have 1 cc break every couple minuted. But EVERY healing build has some sort of cleanse ability. Some are better than others, its true, but if you see a friend feared, you can dispel. Same for polymorph silence, and some stuns.

    Problem is that clerics aren't well represented in pvp. And they did it to themselves!

    First wf: Moron cleric doesn't heal in wf...rest of team sees this and hates cleric. Why protect a jerk who doesn't heal or dispel and fails at dps?

    Next wf: Another cleric shows up, he wants to heal but the team is still mad at last cleric. Why protect a jerk who doesn't heal or dispel? Cleric gets focused and dies. Cleric quits PvP.

    Clerics need to l2dispell. Players need to l2protectcleric.

    WoW! CC isn't an issue anymore!
    So EVERY healing class has a dispel....

    As a Bard I have yet to see one so that would be an incorrect statement. Bards tend to be the highest healing class until this CC crap really got out of hand. Now to play in a Warfront, Bards are no longer viable due to this CC Out Of Control BS. I for one will say PvP is the ONLY thing keeping me subscribed and if it is going to stay like this, well what's the point?

    Better yet what your Signature says is defunct due to your statement. Skill is not spamming a button for a cleric to mass dispel when others just spam stun buttons. That is not PvP that is mindless button spamming and a total lack of skill
    Last edited by Nekro; 03-28-2011 at 08:47 AM.

  11. #56
    Plane Walker Zantetsuken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peligrad View Post
    Rift is structured at organized play.

    Yes, YOU only have 1 cc break every couple minuted. But EVERY healing build has some sort of cleanse ability. Some are better than others, its true, but if you see a friend feared, you can dispel. Same for polymorph silence, and some stuns.

    Problem is that clerics aren't well represented in pvp. And they did it to themselves!

    First wf: Moron cleric doesn't heal in wf...rest of team sees this and hates cleric. Why protect a jerk who doesn't heal or dispel and fails at dps?

    Next wf: Another cleric shows up, he wants to heal but the team is still mad at last cleric. Why protect a jerk who doesn't heal or dispel? Cleric gets focused and dies. Cleric quits PvP.

    Clerics need to l2dispell. Players need to l2protectcleric.

    WoW! CC isn't an issue anymore!
    Yeah, sadly that is the case, healers are the backbone of PvP at the moment, and there are nowhere near enough of them at the moment.

    They need to introduce some self-reliance to the souls, healers should be a bonus, not a necessity.
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  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zantetsuken View Post
    Yeah, sadly that is the case, healers are the backbone of PvP at the moment, and there are nowhere near enough of them at the moment.

    They need to introduce some self-reliance to the souls, healers should be a bonus, not a necessity.
    Disagree. Healers should be vital and classes should rely on other classes even more. There should be dedicated anti-cc classes with skills like group purge, de-mezz abilities, combat finishers that proc temporary stun resistance, etc.

    There should be a large gap between dedicated, organized groups and solo/pug players.

    Combat should revolve around control rather than "who can faceroll more dps classes across the battlefield"

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nekro View Post
    So EVERY healing class has a dispel....

    As a Bard I have yet to see one so that would be an incorrect statement. Bards tend to be the highest healing class until this CC crap really got out of hand. Now to play in a Warfront, Bards are no longer viable due to this CC Out Of Control BS. I for one will say PvP is the ONLY thing keeping me subscribed and if it is going to stay like this, well what's the point?

    Better yet what your Signature says is defunct due to your statement. Skill is not spamming a button for a cleric to mass dispel when others just spam stun buttons. That is not PvP that is mindless button spamming and a total lack of skill
    Tell me, how do bards heal? Oh yes by dealing damage! They don't actively heal they heal by spamming a damaging ability. Bards are support not true healers. If you want to argue go heal a fang carrier without an enemy nearby...

    P.S. Bards don't need any more tools.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snyrf View Post
    Disagree. Healers should be vital and classes should rely on other classes even more. There should be dedicated anti-cc classes with skills like group purge, de-mezz abilities, combat finishers that proc temporary stun resistance, etc.

    There should be a large gap between dedicated, organized groups and solo/pug players.

    Combat should revolve around control rather than "who can faceroll more dps classes across the battlefield"
    I tend to agree with you on this point. IMO Purifier (by definition) should fill this role. I think that this tree stands to be reworked.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peligrad View Post
    Tell me, how do bards heal? Oh yes by dealing damage! They don't actively heal they heal by spamming a damaging ability. Bards are support not true healers. If you want to argue go heal a fang carrier without an enemy nearby...

    P.S. Bards don't need any more tools.
    1) I never asked for more "tools" There are enough logged into the game right now (I joke I joke, Take a deep breath and relax lol) I am not looking for tools, just a DR or reduced amount of CC time in a warfront for each CC.

    2) So Bards aren't healers in Warfronts? LMAO that is just rich IMO. Bards are essential heals in any Warfront EXCEPT Black Garden. There our main heal push comes from defending the carrier and healing off anyone that comes near them or going in with the assault group to keep them up. In any other one, a Bard is part of a well developed defensive team to hold a place in Codex, the Bridge in Port and defending the Shard in Whitefall. Just because Black Garden is a bit more geared towards single target healing does not reduce the classes viability in a Warfront. In all honesty I will take 3 Bards over 10 Cookie cutter Sabs any day

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