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Thread: PvP well never be balanced. [Its not the classes Its YOU]

  1. #1
    Telaran
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    Default PvP well never be balanced. [Its not the classes Its YOU]

    I have played many mmo's and computer games in my time and PvP in any game is never quite balanced. Putting classes aside.

    Play Battlefield or Cod any day of the week and its usually a one sided game because of better team cohesion.

    Starcaft 2 what I would consider a very balanced game as easily be lots because of a bad tactic choice.

    Same goes for PvP in mmos it comes down to good teams, good tactics and a little luck. They can balance the classes until the cows come home and it well NEVER be perfect.

    You lose because of the team, weather that is lack of healers, pugs who don't work together, bad tactic choice, bad players. You can't balance these things with by changing the classes ever 2nd patch!!
    Last edited by Neuraxis; 03-07-2011 at 07:22 PM.

  2. #2
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neuraxis View Post
    I have played many mmo and computer games in my time and PvP in any game is never quite balanced. Putting classes aside.

    Play Battlefield or Cod any day of the week and its usually a one sided game because of better team cohesion.

    Starcaft 2 what I would consider a very balanced game as easily be lots because of a bad tactic choice.

    Same goes for PvP in mmos it comes down to good teams, good tactics and a little luck. They can balance the classes until the cows come home and it well NEVER be perfect.

    You lose because of the team, weather that is lack of healers, pugs who don't work together, bad tactic choice, bad players. You can't balance these things with by changing the classes ever 2nd patch!!
    Sure you can't balance bad teams but some things like dying to champions within a charge and one pummel is clearly overpowered and has everything to do with the class.

    No one complains about that his side loses but to the fact that there are some classes that can basically kill you within 5 seconds and others that are barely capable of putting a dent in the enemy after beating on him for 30 seconds.

  3. #3
    Soulwalker
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    says the warrior or rogue

  4. #4
    lud
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    heh most good fps are completely balanced at the core gameplay, in actual guild ladders are very close matches, to work your way to a top 10 ranking means your good, games in the top 10 are usually 11-9 12-8 etc. They are close and come down to tactics, which you spend a good 10 hours a week working on and skirms just to play a 1 hour match.

    A ladder in this game would be great and you would get to vs people around your skill level.

    You will never have proper tactics in a pub group, while balance is hard to achieve obvious issues stick out,
    they are sabs having no hard counter(i cleanse like crazy and do low healing trying to save the sabs target, once every 2 min i can save them with my -40% dmg buff) and warriors insane dps, perma snare and half the time they can have you stunned or disarmed.
    The sab fix is simple, allow us to cleanse 2 afflictions at once, the warriors need to be looked at by a pvp dev.
    Last edited by lud; 03-07-2011 at 08:55 PM.

  5. #5
    Champion of Telara
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    [Its not the classes Its YOU]
    no u


    adasd
    Last edited by pechkin; 03-07-2011 at 10:14 PM.

  6. #6
    Ascendant Chase Payne's Avatar
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    Please don't post about PvP balance until you're level 50, it's way off at that level.
    Warriors listen to this while they play PvP:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kgjkth6BRRY

  7. #7
    Rift Chaser lcl22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chase Payne View Post
    Please don't post about PvP balance until you're level 50, it's way off at that level.

    nerf mana drain and make it break CCs

    make all "loss of control" abilities share the SAME DR'S

    make all snares and roots the same, aka; half duration on 2nd cast, almost nill in third

    universally add low tier endurance talents to all pvp souls

    increase( if at all possible ) the number of shards per battle cluster for warfronts


    do that , and the QQ will go down exponentially

  8. #8
    Rift Chaser Plexus's Avatar
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    PvP is never balanced because of how the classes are made.

    Class A is better than Class B. Class B is better than class C. Class C is better than Class D. Class D is better than Class A.

    A>B>C>D>A
    Simple enough, right?

    Now throw those letters in a pit and make them fight each other and what do you get?

    BCDBACBABCBDADDCDABCABDABCABCDCBDACBACBDABCAABCDCB ABCDA
    Last edited by Plexus; 03-07-2011 at 10:48 PM.

  9. #9
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plexus View Post
    PvP is never balanced because of how the classes are made.

    Class A is better than Class B. Class B is better than class C. Class C is better than Class D. Class D is better than Class A.

    A>B>C>D>A
    Simple enough, right?

    Now throw those letters in a pit and make them fight each other and what do you get?

    BCDBACBABCBDADDCDABCABDABCABCDCBDACBACBDABCAABCDCB ABCDA
    the only thing you need to do now is tell us which class is A, B etc

  10. #10
    Shield of Telara IceDread's Avatar
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    With my warrior I owned both a rogue and another warrior. I could do that because I first took out the rogue and snared the warrior. They did not use their skills wisely.

    So yeah to some degree it is not the classes. But when a skilled one faces another skilled one it's up to the souls they have chosen and the balance. The system is paper rock scissor thou and I'm fine with that. It makes it more interesting and challenging.
    Defiant, since I trust in knowledge.
    Defiant, since religion is false.

  11. #11
    Rift Disciple Magenta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neuraxis View Post
    I have played many mmo's and computer games in my time and PvP in any game is never quite balanced. Putting classes aside.

    Play Battlefield or Cod any day of the week and its usually a one sided game because of better team cohesion.

    Starcaft 2 what I would consider a very balanced game as easily be lots because of a bad tactic choice.

    Same goes for PvP in mmos it comes down to good teams, good tactics and a little luck. They can balance the classes until the cows come home and it well NEVER be perfect.

    You lose because of the team, weather that is lack of healers, pugs who don't work together, bad tactic choice, bad players. You can't balance these things with by changing the classes ever 2nd patch!!
    I hope for your sake this is a troll post!

  12. #12
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neuraxis View Post
    I have played many mmo's and computer games in my time and PvP in any game is never quite balanced. Putting classes aside.

    Play Battlefield or Cod any day of the week and its usually a one sided game because of better team cohesion.

    Starcaft 2 what I would consider a very balanced game as easily be lots because of a bad tactic choice.

    Same goes for PvP in mmos it comes down to good teams, good tactics and a little luck. They can balance the classes until the cows come home and it well NEVER be perfect.

    You lose because of the team, weather that is lack of healers, pugs who don't work together, bad tactic choice, bad players. You can't balance these things with by changing the classes ever 2nd patch!!
    You're right. It will never be perfect. But that doesn't mean we should just let things sit the way they are. Feedback (or what the QQ should be but isn't most of the time) is the only way it will ever get close to perfect. This isn't just a game I paid 60 bucks for and now thats it. If I had a game like that yeah, discussion will get me nowhere. But this is a subscription game, and improvement or additional content is expected if the subscription is to be maintained. Right away no, but now is the time to get that feedback so it can be worked on.

  13. #13
    Rift Master Dankshasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IceDread View Post
    With my warrior I owned both a rogue and another warrior. I could do that because I first took out the rogue and snared the warrior. They did not use their skills wisely.

    So yeah to some degree it is not the classes. But when a skilled one faces another skilled one it's up to the souls they have chosen and the balance. The system is paper rock scissor thou and I'm fine with that. It makes it more interesting and challenging.


    Your actually wrong in some ways.. Let's say you had the rogue with you and the other warrior was alone. Now the other warrior can bullcharge him, titan smash flamespear and basically kill any rogue pretty fast. There are no taunts or detaunts. Once you charge him your free to basically destroy him in seconds. What follows would be a warrior 1v1. The rogue in this situation is irrelevant. He's hardly even fodder once he gets titan smashed. I have a warrior now, and guess what? He's ridiculously OP, and it would take extreme luck/act of God for a rogue to have a chance, or even two rogues. You didnt do anything requiring "skill" or knowledge of the game, you did what was obvious. Kill the mosquito, then get on with the fight, gratz, it's broke.

    Before i made my warrior I thought it was unbalanced. As i progress down my soul trees though I'm really starting to understand how bad it is. It's a joke really, and how people are saying it's a "L2P" situation is beyond ludicrous. I expect better balance from a pay to play game, tbh.
    Last edited by Dankshasta; 03-08-2011 at 02:00 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Seether View Post
    I need 900 valor, and a healer to kill Dankshasta
    "How do i pwn so good?"

    DARKFALL PvP!!

  14. #14
    Shield of Telara IceDread's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dankshasta View Post
    Your actually wrong in some ways.. Let's say you had the rogue with you and the other warrior was alone. Now the other warrior can bullcharge him, titan smash flamespear and basically kill any rogue pretty fast. There are no taunts or detaunts. Once you charge him your free to basically destroy him in seconds. What follows would be a warrior 1v1. The rogue in this situation is irrelevant. He's hardly even fodder once he gets titan smashed. I have a warrior now, and guess what? He's ridiculously OP, and it would take extreme luck/act of God for a rogue to have a chance, or even two rogues. You didnt do anything requiring "skill" or knowledge of the game, you did what was obvious. Kill the mosquito, then get on with the fight, gratz, it's broke.

    Before i made my warrior I thought it was unbalanced. As i progress down my soul trees though I'm really starting to understand how bad it is. It's a joke really, and how people are saying it's a "L2P" situation is beyond ludicrous. I expect better balance from a pay to play game, tbh.
    So you didnt learn the rogue souls. Ranged rogues can do high damage and kiting but will have it hard against some warrior souls like champ.
    However, close combat rogues.. those can do a lot against warriors. In the rogue forum they do not even view warriors as a problem.

    So you are mistaken.

    Also, if I had a rogue with me, I'd kite the warrior and the rogue with me would kite the warrior and we'd burst him down with ease since we'd be 2 that knows how to play. Ranged or not ranged, would not be an issue.

    It is l2p. But not every soul is good against opponent x.
    Defiant, since I trust in knowledge.
    Defiant, since religion is false.

  15. #15
    Rift Master Dankshasta's Avatar
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    I have a warrior now, and Champ/RB/Reaver spec is brutal. You could prolly kill any 2 and possibly any three scouts at once. Three would be tougher but I'd only be limited to how fast three titan smashes, or bullcharges can be used. 2v1s and 3v1s though are no prob with warriors. If a sab trys to kite me i just wait until he faces me to use an abilty, bullcharge, and he's dead in a few seconds nine out of ten times. You can;t kite me cuz their range is 30 mine is 20, but they have to face me for even a quick millisecond to use abilities, and then it's GG. Healers have to heal so hard to survive my burst, and get so snared, feared,stunned, interrupted, etc they have no time to actually dps me. It's easy really. Not really a hard build either, I mean anybody can read those trees and pick out 31 KILLER places to put points in that just pwn everything else in PvP. The PvP in this game is going to die within a few weeks prolly, so I'd at least suggest to anyone who still hasn't done so, REROLL Warrior. It's fun, you can dps, tank, range dps, and obviously you are only really vulnerable to other tanks in PvP. Some classes will get lucky one in ten trys (less really) or kill you with a mob, but those are aberrations, this archetype just pwns.
    Last edited by Dankshasta; 03-08-2011 at 03:33 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Seether View Post
    I need 900 valor, and a healer to kill Dankshasta
    "How do i pwn so good?"

    DARKFALL PvP!!

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