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Thread: The real "why" Defiant gets steamrolled

  1. #1
    Shadowlander
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    Default The real "why" Defiant gets steamrolled

    I imagine i've been in around 30 bgs right now with my lvl 22 cleric. I know that isn't a huge number, but there is certainly a disturbing pattern. Out of those 30 or so, Defiant has won around 3. Ive seen similar threads with fingers all pointing to these reasons.

    1. Too many afkers - yes
    2. No team work - yes
    3. No orginization - yes
    4. No focus on objective - yes
    5. Just plain baddies at pvp - yes
    6. Not enough healers - yes

    What I find most curious about all those things is WHY.
    I have a couple theories that may be horribly wrong, but that is why they are theories.

    1. Unlike WoW and other MMO's with factions, more children may gravitate to the "bad guy" faction in Rift simply because the faction names Defiant and Guardian very clearly in a childs mind may represent kids vrs adults. Adults=Guardian, Children=Defiant. Therefore we get a few more kids on the Defiant side of the isle.

    2. Don't mean to be steriotypical here, but facts are facts and the fact is that a larger % of female players enjoy healing compared to males and females tend to gravitate towards the "good" faction. Therefore the Guardians have more healers.

    This may be complete garbage, but there must be a reason why defiant fit ALL of the baddie catagories in PvP.... at least in the bottom two brackets

  2. #2
    Rift Disciple Freyar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onyxenigma View Post
    I imagine i've been in around 30 bgs right now with my lvl 22 cleric. I know that isn't a huge number, but there is certainly a disturbing pattern. Out of those 30 or so, Defiant has won around 3. Ive seen similar threads with fingers all pointing to these reasons.
    This win:loss ratio is what I'm seeing as well, even when I was running the top end of the brackets prior. I don't agree with the rest though.

  3. #3
    Telaran Vexing Vision's Avatar
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    You know, we have exactly the same discussion about why Defiants keep steamrolling us on the Guardian side.

    I think it's a matter of perspective only.


    Also, when I'm on my cleric, I'm usually one of at most two healers (if at all) in my warfronts - even if there's another cleric, they always go Cabalist/DPS.

    Additionally, we only have rangers, no tanks.
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    Champion Cyndel's Avatar
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    I win some, I lose some. I win more than most defiant say they do.

    You should add in when there are healers people don't help them. The healers get focused down and no one peels for them. That makes people less likely to play healers.

    And more people played defiant on beta so on live a lot of people gravitated to the guardians because they thought they would be the underdogs. So I don't think it is a children vs. adult issue. I was going to play guardian but then all my friends already playing went defiant so that is where I went.
    Last edited by Cyndel; 03-07-2011 at 07:50 AM.

  5. #5
    Telaran qDMG's Avatar
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    in my and other many cases we rolled defiant because some of the best guilds rolled guardian. why? Because we don't jump on the bandwagon and rather be nuked few more times than having easy going all the time.

  6. #6
    Rift Master
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    My first assumption was that all the shards where mixed together for warfronts. This is NOT the case. I have only ever seen four shards in my warfronts. So it varies by battlegroup or warfront group.

    Please list the time of day you played. The level bracket you where in. The shard you where on.

    Play on deepwood, greybriar, reclaimer or shatterbone and you will win a lot as defiant.

  7. #7
    Champion Red Exodus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rowdysattva View Post
    My first assumption was that all the shards where mixed together for warfronts. This is NOT the case. I have only ever seen four shards in my warfronts. So it varies by battlegroup or warfront group.

    Please list the time of day you played. The level bracket you where in. The shard you where on.

    Play on deepwood, greybriar, reclaimer or shatterbone and you will win a lot as defiant.
    You know warfronts are cross-server right?

  8. #8
    Shadowlander Daemoness's Avatar
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    This is just silly.

    As a Defiant on Epoch I've run at least 30 warfronts as well between Black Garden and The Codex. Wins v Losses are purely a matter of who is queueing for them at the time you are going. Saturday I ran at least 15 Black Gardens (before The Codex was open to me) and Defiants were roflstomping Guardians nearly the whole day. We lost maybe one warfront I was in. Once I hit The Codex at level 20 I haven't been in a winning game since.

    Do I blame a particular faction for my wins or losses? No. If I see that I keep getting paired with the same people that do not understand the concept of the WF or know how to play their classes I simply wait to queue later in the day or with a different group of people. I don't think that the Guardians on the other shards are lazy, afk, w/o healers, etc.

    As a side note, while its important to look at the make-up of your WF group (healers/ranged/melee/tanks) I think it is also important to look at the levels of players. Could the fact that I was level 20 going in against players up to level 29 affect the outcome of every Codex warfront I participated in? While I do not think thats the sole reason I'm sure it contributed to the overall fact that I may not have been as big of a contributor than what some of my higher leveled teammates were. You would just hope that there is at least a lower level 20 on the other team that might help balance the structure out.
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  9. #9
    Rift Disciple
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    I've leveled up all 4 souls in 10-19 warfronts exclusively. At least in that bracket one or two good players with op builds can carry their team. If you happen to be one of those players you will hardly lose.

    In 20+ I've seen a lot more guardian wins. I'd like to think this is because all the good pvpers went guardian for a challenge while all the bad pvp players who needed to be carried went defiant hearing they were a powerhouse in beta. I personally went guardian for a challenge.

  10. #10
    Rift Disciple Freyar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daemoness View Post
    *snip*
    Let me start a blacklist then.

  11. #11
    Rift Chaser
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vexing Vision View Post
    You know, we have exactly the same discussion about why Defiants keep steamrolling us on the Guardian side.

    I think it's a matter of perspective only.


    Also, when I'm on my cleric, I'm usually one of at most two healers (if at all) in my warfronts - even if there's another cleric, they always go Cabalist/DPS.

    Additionally, we only have rangers, no tanks.
    Honestly I think it's timing. I've been in warfronts where both sides were awesome and the fights were close. I've been in warfronts where the guardians appeared to all be taking a smoke break and were barely there. And I've been in warfronts where we got creamed, usually for lack of team work.

    The only thing that really changed was when I was playing. Some days are going to be diamond, and some coal.

  12. #12
    Rift Disciple Anraas's Avatar
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    Guardians are nothing but rogues, clerics, and 2-3 dominators.

    Defiant actually has different souls in their line up.

  13. #13
    Plane Walker Kelledon's Avatar
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    Im level 34 and my win to lose ration is 20 to 110.

  14. #14
    Telaran
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    Just got done in the WFs in the 20 brackets and we had a W/L ratio of about 5:1 on the defiant side. The loses we experienced were because people weren't working together and healers were not doing their jobs. Its just a matter of if you get lucky with a good pug. If you experience alot of losses might be time to take a break and come back at a later time to try and shuffle the none sensual players from those who have their **** together. Plus the game is only a week old its going to take some people some time to figure out how to combine their souls into effective fighting forces regardless of their calling or soul selection.

  15. #15
    Sword of Telara utterchaos's Avatar
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    I have tons of screenshots where in the 30-39 bracket i would face guardian teams 50% rogue calling 50% clerics or warrior/rogue/cleric. Its is a rare site to see a mage being played by a guardian. Now i spec'd deep in dominator to be more of a team player and sometimes it makes the difference and sometimes i still get focused. Hell one game while at the codex i had 4 ranger pets on me all the time. Pets seem a bit too strong at lower brackets but i hear at lvl 50 its not so bad.

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