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Thread: Mana Wrench in PvP.. Really?

  1. #46
    Ascendant Visions's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schmicks View Post
    Your son has never met a competent void knight. He would be running back to you crying in an instant, playing any type of a caster. There's absolutely nothing he can do other then squirrel and run away. And that's only if he gets the jump.
    When I do my VK spec I can drain every other caster in 12 seconds, but can not drain him of power.

    QUIT LYING. God I hate nubs who lie because they find an easy mode class hard to play.

    Chloro, Archon, Archmage 33/13/0

    Once you can field that build, with those points from there to 50 you're unkillable 1v1, virtually unkillable 2v1.

    If you're running with others, switch to a Chloro / Dom spec.
    Last edited by Visions; 03-07-2011 at 01:12 PM.


    MMORPG played: Everquest I, Dark Age of Camelot, Dungeons and Dragons Online, Everquest II, Aion, Warhammer Online, and Fallen Earth (BETA only).
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  2. #47
    Rift Disciple Schmicks's Avatar
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    On a previous page you said he's unkillable in dom/chloro. Now you claim he's unkillable with chloro / archon. As for the glorified chloro / archon build as you have posted here. With these points, his mana regen abilities are as follows:
    a) Leeching Flames - 10% mana over 12 seconds, 30 seconds cd
    b) Living Shell - this one restores 60% mana over 30 seconds while active, 2 minutes cd
    Other then that he has nothing. The first one is negligable. As for the second. It seems strong, but the thing is, if he takes damage while the shield is active, the damage will be subtracted from his mana pool, which means, that unless he keeps himself untouched, he might actually get out with less mana then before he used it.

    BUT:

    So much for the theorycrafting. I actually bothered to test it out ingame. And you have just made me find a bug. It seems that the shield restores mana, absorbs damage, but does not consume mana for the damage absorbed as the tooltip claiims. Not only that. The ability that breaks the shield (and possibly 1-2 more afterwards if they are fast enough) actually ADD mana equal to damage done. I've already sent it ing ame as a bug. You may do as well. The ability in it's current state is OP and I do believe that you can't drain him with that on.

  3. #48
    Ascendant Visions's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schmicks View Post
    On a previous page you said he's unkillable in dom/chloro. Now you claim he's unkillable with chloro / archon. As for the glorified chloro / archon build as you have posted here. With these points, his mana regen abilities are as follows:
    a) Leeching Flames - 10% mana over 12 seconds, 30 seconds cd
    b) Living Shell - this one restores 60% mana over 30 seconds while active, 2 minutes cd
    Other then that he has nothing. The first one is negligable. As for the second. It seems strong, but the thing is, if he takes damage while the shield is active, the damage will be subtracted from his mana pool, which means, that unless he keeps himself untouched, he might actually get out with less mana then before he used it.

    BUT:

    So much for the theorycrafting. I actually bothered to test it out ingame. And you have just made me find a bug. It seems that the shield restores mana, absorbs damage, but does not consume mana for the damage absorbed as the tooltip claiims. Not only that. The ability that breaks the shield (and possibly 1-2 more afterwards if they are fast enough) actually ADD mana equal to damage done. I've already sent it ing ame as a bug. You may do as well. The ability in it's current state is OP and I do believe that you can't drain him with that on.
    Both builds are extremely powerful, and I havn't beat him in either. The Arcon build will not run out of power, and it might be because the shield is bugged, but as you found, I'm not wrong here.

    It's the same issue that the Paragon ability working for Champion two handed, when it says dual wield.

    Some things just work, and unless you've seen it, you might not believe it.

    P.S. Keep in mind we test everything using consumables too. I think most people even forget there are consumables.
    Last edited by Visions; 03-07-2011 at 01:47 PM.


    MMORPG played: Everquest I, Dark Age of Camelot, Dungeons and Dragons Online, Everquest II, Aion, Warhammer Online, and Fallen Earth (BETA only).
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  4. #49
    Rift Disciple Schmicks's Avatar
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    One more thing bugged in this build. Exhilaration procs from any ability, not only those that actually can have a critical effect (damage and heals). I don't know how applying an archon aura can crit, but it happily restores mana nonetheless.
    Last edited by Schmicks; 03-07-2011 at 01:55 PM.

  5. #50
    Telaran Roxx's Avatar
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    Quick, make all the classes the same so we can whine it's boring.

    Don't ruin this crazy *** game's potential, and stop trying to sit on a Dom for no reason.
    Briarcliff PvP or it doesn't count.

  6. #51
    General of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dakios View Post
    This is probably the biggest joke of a spell. at level 29 i will get completely wiped of mana in 2 channels of it. Even with one 20 sec cd interrupt it doesn't matter they will just keep casting it until i am out of mana. This needs to be fixed, it makes mana users completely useless when they just keep getting drained like this. If this is going to stay in the game, it needs to be scaled down much more and needs to be interrupted if the target goes LOS.
    Mana destruction is part of this game. Deal with it.

    In PvP mana destruction is meaningless unless the targets' ENTIRE BAR can be drained within a reasonable amount of time. If we leave you with 50% mana or even 25% youre still able to keep your team alive for awhile.

    Honestly if given the choice between rapid and powerful mana destruction and invincible healers i choose the former.
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  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roxx View Post
    Quick, make all the classes the same so we can whine it's boring.

    Don't ruin this crazy *** game's potential, and stop trying to sit on a Dom for no reason.
    Right, we shouldn't fix classes so that everyone is playing the same class. Sounds fun.


    MMORPG played: Everquest I, Dark Age of Camelot, Dungeons and Dragons Online, Everquest II, Aion, Warhammer Online, and Fallen Earth (BETA only).
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  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Visions View Post
    @Docmandu

    My son says take Archmage as a third soul, and the 5 second stun is useless against you.
    As I said before.. I have Archmage.. the break free doesn't do anything.. you break free and get insta restunned again... maybe he hasn't met any warriors that know how to play their class yet

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nonsensei436 View Post
    Mana destruction is part of this game. Deal with it.

    In PvP mana destruction is meaningless unless the targets' ENTIRE BAR can be drained within a reasonable amount of time. If we leave you with 50% mana or even 25% youre still able to keep your team alive for awhile.

    Honestly if given the choice between rapid and powerful mana destruction and invincible healers i choose the former.
    Exactly... dom spends 12 seconds sucking 70% of your power.. you use the 30% that's left to nuke him into oblivion... or use it to heal up the pitiful damage he did to you in those 12 seconds and still have 29% power left to do other things.

  10. #55
    Telaran
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    Are people complaining about mages? Really?

    Dominators are the single useful group pvp spec mages have, and even it is of dubious usefulness against groups greater than 2, as any single class can demolish a heavy dom with no CC available in <5 seconds.

    I'm pretty sure those complaining about dominators have never even tried playing a mage. We get absolutely destroyed in group settings as we have no mitigation, and you guys want to nerf the one semi-viable spec because you are struggling 1v1 against it? Really?

  11. #56
    Rift Disciple Kromzor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schmicks View Post
    Thank god people whining on these forums are not designing Rift. It would be a sad and s***y perspective.
    Yeah, we should be glad they went with yours. You know where you squawk "you can't expect to be a solo hero in a team game!" unless of course you're a Dom, and fighting half the classes in the game that use mana and you can mash one button (and god help us if you're competent enough to use more than 1 skill) and quickly render them useless... at which point it doesn't matter if you don't have the same damage output of a full Pyro build or whatever because you're now doing 100% more damage than the guy with 0 mana.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Docmandu View Post
    Agree.. they need to tweak their immunity system... same happens on melee stuns.. as a mage when a champ gets on me, I get stunned, if I purge it with the Archmage PvP soul ability, I just get restunned again and die in the duration of the stun.

    CC shouldn't have diminishing returns in PvP imho.. it should have immunities.. the longer the CC type, the longer the immunity (maybe another thing they should steal from daoc).


    BTW: transmog isn't insta by default... it requires investment in the soul tree to make it an insta.
    This is why DAoC worked so well.

  13. #58
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    I can see a lot of things balancing out in the future, like insanely high burst and eventually even rampant CC, because I can acknowledge solutions to them. For example, eventually I'll be able to stack valor gear and break cc every two minutes. However I really do NOT see a solution to these ridiculous mana drains that are crippling my ability to do anything useful (other than die quickly so i can actually cast **** again). Granted it's anecdotal evidence and entirely circumstantial, I've had my mana pool completely wrecked in 5-6 seconds, and no reasonable amount of gear boosting mana regen and mana pool size is going to make that any less devastating (burned in 7-8 seconds MAYBE).

    It's also pretty freakin silly to pull the "teammates should be halping yous!" card, because of a number of reasons. Your teammates in an average 10v10 warfront are not going to be able to, at first sight of a class that is capable of mana burns, lock them down and keep them away from you. It's bad enough we have to rely on others to even play our class and use our abilities instead of getting pounded into the dirt, but it's a pretty general rule of thumb that teamwork with that semblance of coordination is going to only happen in a premade. This isn't even regarding the combination of crowd control (cough transmogrify) with these mana draining tactics, which is even more out of control.

    PvP has a lot to do with action and reaction, especially as a healer. If my only available response to these highly over-effective mana drains is to ask other people to deal with it, a serious nerf is called for.
    Last edited by Cathode; 03-07-2011 at 09:48 PM.

  14. #59
    Soulwalker Micmager's Avatar
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    I take full and complete responsibility. Dakios is pissed because last night he played against me for a good 10 matches in a row. He's pissed off because his team didn't support him and I kept a constant mana wrench on him. He then proceeded to make a level 1 character to trash talk me telling me that I should keep on mana wrenching and calling me some very nasty names that I'm sure the forums would screen.

    I maintain what I said though... champions are a dominator's worst nightmare. 900+ crits? wtf are you doing champ?

  15. #60
    Rift Chaser lcl22's Avatar
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    either nerf it to the ground or flat out remove it from pvp (seems kind of usless for pve in any case, i wouldnt mind its complete removal from the game tbh) or make it cost a CRAPTON of mana for the mage to, he drains my healer, but he wastes a ton of mana to do it too

    another option i think is to decrease the rate at wich mana is drained , but increase it to be a looooong channel, wich leaves the mage open to counterspell, yes it may drain your mana, but it should take longer to do it and require more compromise from the mage casting it

    easier to just remove it from pvp, more practical to adjust individual classes mana , than to design around the existence of mana drains wich , afaik , arent used at all in pve

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