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Thread: Petition: Team Death match mode for all warfront maps.

  1. #16
    Shadowlander Oragog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrFoxx View Post
    So, i shouldnt be allowed to pvp, because i dont want to pvp the way you pvp? And im a mindless idiot?

    There is a reason im asking for this, because the only option i have if i just want to pvp and still get favor is to queue up and ignore the objectives. SO shouldn't you be FOR THIS, instead of against it, so more of us mindless idiots will queue in deathmatch instead of your capture the flag objective based pvp?
    It's called world PvP, killing with no objectives. You can already do it. So yes, you are a simpleton. Think of it this way, if you go to the objective (or even grab the objective in the case of black gardens) you will bring the other team to you to kill them willy nilly. People trying to cap a flag are not attacking back, so why would you be upset about bait to kill people?

    I enjoy killing people, but you can do so and do the objectives. It doesn't take a lot of effort to do both, and can yield more kills.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrFoxx View Post
    I am not saying remove objectives im saying give the option to pvp without having to worry about them.
    Yes that actually is EXACTLY what you are saying. Without objectives what is their to cause someone to leave a good camping spot? What you don't seem to grasp is that objectives create the reason for conflict. Otherwise you get the scenario I laid out for you because each BG is large enough where you can avoid the other team and it then becomes a waiting game of who wants to mindlessly bash their head against a wall.

    Like I said, you already have a non-objective PvP option. Roll up into the opposing factions side and start killing people.

    Quote Originally Posted by uvo View Post
    If we are speaking about WoW's arenas (unless you want to compare against something else), you have 5 or fewer people in a premade team playing another team for gear and for ranking.

    Deathmatch would be the same as warfronts in that you would have 5 maximum players premade (unless they change that) and it would be on a larger scale (10-15 players if you go off of the codex/steppes/garden). And it would have the same look rewards as playing normal warfronts.

    You would be doing a warfront either to kill people or to accomplish an objective. Either way it would not be an arena.
    Answer the issue of forcing people to leave camping spots without objectives or making the fighting area small enough that you can't avoid combat (ala arena). Here is the other thing you all are missing that happens in those other team pvp games. You have limited lives and they are TWITCH based, you are trying to apply game design that works for another genre of game that would not work in a GCD/Turn based game.
    "If you make a really big stink, grab the air freshener by the sink.
    Spray the contents everywhere, so the next person can smell the air." - Albert Einstein

  2. #17
    Rift Disciple Koravel's Avatar
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    If you're going to do this, Rift's devs would need to make another map for it. As pointed out numerous times, it wouldn't work on the current maps.


    Rashira | Threesprings | Defiant | DominateDominion | Cleric | Level 60

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koravel View Post
    If you're going to do this, Rift's devs would need to make another map for it. As pointed out numerous times, it wouldn't work on the current maps.

    SO make another map for it, I guarantee you, if they make a deathmatch mode, and made it 5v5, 10v10, 15v15, it would be more popular then every one of the other warfronts combined. And i would stake money on that.
    * Petition: Team Death match mode for all warfront maps.


    The biggest mistake I see mages and other range classes do is try to tank me, as a warrior. Are you insane? What makes you believe you can fight and survive me at melee range as a guy wearing a bedsheet with a belt trying to pass it off as armor and the hp pool of a wetnapkin.

    Am i supposed to be teaching you how to play your class in between beating you in the warfronts?

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oragog View Post
    It's called world PvP, killing with no objectives. You can already do it. So yes, you are a simpleton. Think of it this way, if you go to the objective (or even grab the objective in the case of black gardens) you will bring the other team to you to kill them willy nilly. People trying to cap a flag are not attacking back, so why would you be upset about bait to kill people?

    I enjoy killing people, but you can do so and do the objectives. It doesn't take a lot of effort to do both, and can yield more kills.



    Yes that actually is EXACTLY what you are saying. Without objectives what is their to cause someone to leave a good camping spot? What you don't seem to grasp is that objectives create the reason for conflict. Otherwise you get the scenario I laid out for you because each BG is large enough where you can avoid the other team and it then becomes a waiting game of who wants to mindlessly bash their head against a wall.

    Like I said, you already have a non-objective PvP option. Roll up into the opposing factions side and start killing people.



    Answer the issue of forcing people to leave camping spots without objectives or making the fighting area small enough that you can't avoid combat (ala arena). Here is the other thing you all are missing that happens in those other team pvp games. You have limited lives and they are TWITCH based, you are trying to apply game design that works for another genre of game that would not work in a GCD/Turn based game.
    Quote Originally Posted by Koravel View Post
    If you're going to do this, Rift's devs would need to make another map for it. As pointed out numerous times, it wouldn't work on the current maps.

    Are you guys really trying to tell me that deathmatch wouldn't work at all in a MMORPG without the arbitrary added objective of trying to catch a flag? Do you really believe that? Sounds like silly nonsense to me, i cant believe it didnt sound silly to you when you wrote it.
    * Petition: Team Death match mode for all warfront maps.


    The biggest mistake I see mages and other range classes do is try to tank me, as a warrior. Are you insane? What makes you believe you can fight and survive me at melee range as a guy wearing a bedsheet with a belt trying to pass it off as armor and the hp pool of a wetnapkin.

    Am i supposed to be teaching you how to play your class in between beating you in the warfronts?

  5. #20
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    People want to make it seem like pvp is not about the epeen, that is like saying you guys raid 5 days a week because you truly care about the fate of the world. Its nonsense, ALL NONSENSE!

    You pvp for the same reason you raid, you want better gear, you want that gear to make yourself stronger, and at the end of that road there are two out comes, either players will stand in awe of your greatness, gather around you in town, and flood you with whisper commending you on your awesome gear, or cower in fear, because they have seen your name in the warfront and they are still sore from the last whupping you gave them.

    World pvp is not the answer, world pvp is uncredited, and unbalanced, the biggest differences in world pvp are:

    A - My opponents are the same level range as me, it is a fair fight, we both have a good chance of winning or losing
    B - We both have the same numbers, equal teams, ready to rock and roll.
    C - The biggest in my opinion, MY OPPONENT KNOWS HE IS PVPING! Lets face it, world pvp is a gankfest, its often one guy catching a blindside tackle while he is questing, he is often not prepared and usually defeated. That is not pvp, if you are in the warfront, you are ready to pvp, you know what is about to go down, that is much more satisfying.


    A lot of you are making it seem as though it would break the game to add a mirror version of every pvp map currently available, strip it of its objectives and just make it about killing the opponent.

    If you want to play codex and capture the points, queue for that, but if you want to do deathmatch, then queue for that, why is having that option so offensive to some of you?
    * Petition: Team Death match mode for all warfront maps.


    The biggest mistake I see mages and other range classes do is try to tank me, as a warrior. Are you insane? What makes you believe you can fight and survive me at melee range as a guy wearing a bedsheet with a belt trying to pass it off as armor and the hp pool of a wetnapkin.

    Am i supposed to be teaching you how to play your class in between beating you in the warfronts?

  6. #21
    Rift Disciple Schmicks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrFoxx View Post
    What does that telll you? More people liked the arena over the capture the flag nonsense, that is why the arena was more popular..
    Oh yes, it had nothing to do with the fact that all top pvp rewards were ONLY obtainable through arenas. Nothing at all.

    Funny how even Blizzard themselves admitted that introducing arenas into WoW was one of the biggest game design mistakes they have made. They would clearly admit that publicly had arenas been so popular and loved... not.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrFoxx View Post
    But im not talking about arenas, i just want large scale pvp, i just dont want to capture a flag. why is that a bad thing?
    You can have other types of pvp, but NOT deathmatch. It just doesn't work in mmos.

  7. #22
    Soulwalker
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    I think a deathmatch could be fun. I don't think it could be done on the maps we have now. I think something like the following would work though:

    Picture a long alley, thats very wide, with structures looming high above on both sides. There could be small inlets placed sparsely down the allley (For LoS). At each end of the alley are small globes, and further behind the globes there is a Graveyard for each faction. Each team would start the match at the graveyard and run at each other towards the middle, each faction attempting to get to the other end and click (capture) the globe. Make the alley long enough that the games last a little bit. Maybe even placing various globes down the alley that must be "captured", and whoever has the most globes at the end of the time limit, or whichever team grabs the last globe (closest to the oppising faction's GY) wins. There could even be random events that happen, like fires or steam, that could hurt you. Small obstacles that litter the floor but provide some LOS as your team progresses down the hall.

    This type of map would promote a simple kill or be killed type scenario and would also be objective enough that you would have to accomplish it as a team.

  8. #23
    Rift Disciple Ovdisaier's Avatar
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    Signed. Everything you said applies to the current situation.
    The problem with the state of the current warfronts is that the actual killing of players is not rewarded if you do not stick to the godforsaken "pve" stuff like a flag and that loosing a warfront IS rewarded (too much). Already during beta I wrote a lot of ingame feedback about the setup of warfronts, that they facilitate a "hide-away" behaviour whereas a warfront is supposed to induce pvp combat in the basic sense and stuff like that.
    As long as no RVR content is implemented where pvp'ers could engage in actual combat (and I'm not talking about killing a guy 30 levels below and then camping the graveyard) a deathmatch scenario would be a sweet alternative.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrFoxx View Post
    When i pvp... yeah, when pve i tank. What is the point of this question?

    Only dps players want to do pure deathmatch?
    On average, yeah. DPS are traiditionally the guys running around more concerned with killing and ignoring objectives. They're the players that think black garden is a deathmatch mode rather than a capture the macguffin mode.
    Last edited by General_Armchair; 03-06-2011 at 11:07 PM.

  10. #25
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    All of the Warfronts in the game right now are designed around the assumption that it's fun to avoid the other team. They're all just different variations on cat and mouse where team A does their best to avoid team B while team B does their best to try and catch up to team A so they can get a shot at being the mouse. I don't think it's too much to ask to have at least one single map where the main objective is for both teams to beat the crap out of eachother in the most efficient way possible.

  11. #26
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by uvo View Post
    Or sometimes people want to fight without an objective.... don't be a jerk. Just because somebody wants to make the game more enjoyable for themselves does not mean you should bash them.

    This is true, I said the same thing when I posted on the CS and UT forums about adding a Goldshire style map where the goal was to RP and quest instead of running around killing each other. They told me to go play an mmorpg >.<

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by General_Armchair View Post
    On average, yeah. DPS are traiditionally the guys running around more concerned with killing and ignoring objectives. They're the players that think black garden is a deathmatch mode rather than a capture the macguffin mode.
    I pvp to dps, i tried tanking, its not fun for me, but because i know what i want to do in pvp, it angers me that i dont have that option.

    I dont want to ruin other players experiences by doing pure killing when i should be gaurding someone, or capture something. Trust me, all of you guys who get frustrated by losing should be for seperating us from your group. You dont want us to mess up your experience because we are forced to create our own.

    Give us a deathmatch, let us join a warfront where Kill/Death Ratio matters. In team death match teamwork is going to be even more important in my opinion, clerics are going to have to really heal, even tanks will have a role because less deaths mean more victories. The rules are simple, and it all comes down to player skill.
    Last edited by MrFoxx; 03-07-2011 at 07:53 AM.
    * Petition: Team Death match mode for all warfront maps.


    The biggest mistake I see mages and other range classes do is try to tank me, as a warrior. Are you insane? What makes you believe you can fight and survive me at melee range as a guy wearing a bedsheet with a belt trying to pass it off as armor and the hp pool of a wetnapkin.

    Am i supposed to be teaching you how to play your class in between beating you in the warfronts?

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oragog View Post
    In this thread we find the mindless idiot players that make you lose a Warfront, because they are more worried about stroking their e-peen.

    Besides your idea wouldn't work, allow me to present why using Codex as an example. Team A goes to the area by the vault with their whole team there (since this is death match and there are no other objectives there is no reason to go anywhere your team isn't). Team B has two options. Attack Team A on a suicide run through the best choke point on the map. Option two, Team B decides they won't hand them the easy kills and hangs out at the bottom of the vault's ramps hoping Team A. This will result in both teams sitting on their thumbs for 5-10 mins.

    This is why arenas are on small mostly flat maps, with maybe some pillars to use as cover. It doesn't allow the above scenario.

    TL;DR you should just not queue for WFs so the rest of us have a chance at winning.
    you sir are my hero.

  14. #29
    Plane Walker Ironfungus's Avatar
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    I agree with the thread. Team Deathmatch is all anyone actually knows how to do. Therefore I hate objectives, because I can never count on my team to do them properly. Team Deathmatch or nothing, IMO.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironfungus View Post
    I agree with the thread. Team Deathmatch is all anyone actually knows how to do. Therefore I hate objectives, because I can never count on my team to do them properly. Team Deathmatch or nothing, IMO.
    I dont want or nothing, there are some people who like capture the flag.. i personally dont understand why, its like those people who play headquarters mode in Call of duty, like wtf are youd oing there buddy?

    Give us the option for TDM, that is all i want.
    * Petition: Team Death match mode for all warfront maps.


    The biggest mistake I see mages and other range classes do is try to tank me, as a warrior. Are you insane? What makes you believe you can fight and survive me at melee range as a guy wearing a bedsheet with a belt trying to pass it off as armor and the hp pool of a wetnapkin.

    Am i supposed to be teaching you how to play your class in between beating you in the warfronts?

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