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Thread: WF's will be too difficult for pugs.

  1. #1
    Telaran
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    Default WF's will be too difficult for pugs.

    Due to the synergy between classes and the min/max potential of groups pugs will have a very hard time overcoming things like tanks guarding and taunting. The skill gap in this game is huge because of how classes work together and it will be next to impossible to enjoy pvp in pug war fronts because of this.

    On top of the class synergy you also have the strategic nuances that are too much for the majority of pugs to handle. Codex giving more points than the other flags sounds good on paper, but most pugs just want to go after and kill other players not sit and wait for players to come to them.

    Now you add in 5 man premade groups and this problem only gets worse. Premade groups need to be separated from the pugs. Even just 5 people with the amount of min/maxing in this game can dominate a war front. Even a 3 man premade group in capture the flag can be devastating if built for running the flag.

    If nothing is done you are going to see people afking/leaching and leaving WF's early destroying war fronts. With people constantly leaving you'll be put in a 1 sided game after 1 sided game with no chance of winning. With afkers/leachers you're going to have 1 sided games where you have no chance of winning because your side doesn't even want to try.

    All these issues are made worse by a pvp system that encourages war front grinding especially with a premade for gear and pvp ranks. The amount of time it's going to take to reach rank 5 and get the gear as a pug is too much for people to handle.

  2. #2
    Telaran
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    it shouldn't be easy for a random group of people to beat an organized one...

    get in a premade

    get in vent, skype, or heck, use chat

    communicate with your team
    Sic vis pacem, para bellum

  3. #3
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feril View Post
    it shouldn't be easy for a random group of people to beat an organized one...

    get in a premade

    get in vent, skype, or heck, use chat

    communicate with your team
    This is exactly the problem.

    I play a guardian on Deepstrike and what happens is that we beat defiant about 5 games in a row in black garden then they stop even coming down the hill they just stay up there afking/leaching or leaving. Queues go from instant to 20+ minutes and some times well over 45 minutes. The pvp is so noncompetitive to the point where it isn't even fun.

  4. #4
    Plane Touched
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    ...I pug every wf I do if anything your premades on guardian side are trash. Though most defiant pugs and premades are trash that I have seen for our shard group as well....

  5. #5
    Rift Disciple CherryWasHere's Avatar
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    I like that the game necessitates grouping. How anybody can go through an MMO solo baffles me. Even if you don't have five friends, like you said, even two or three people cooperating in vent can dominate a Warfront.
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  6. #6
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by CherryWasHere View Post
    I like that the game necessitates grouping. How anybody can go through an MMO solo baffles me. Even if you don't have five friends, like you said, even two or three people cooperating in vent can dominate a Warfront.
    The game doesn't necessitate grouping. It rewards min/maxing a group to the point where it will become far too difficult for pugs to do well in pvp. Even now you see it where pugs constantly break cc and won't focus fire targets. The skill set needed to do well in pvp for this game is far beyond what most pugs are capable of, and it will only result in afking, leaching, and people leaving war fronts. Queue times are going to rise and war fronts will be nothing more than a grind fest with so little competition that every game will have 1 side completely rolling the other.

  7. #7
    Ascendant Chase Payne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UglyPete View Post
    The game doesn't necessitate grouping. It rewards min/maxing a group to the point where it will become far too difficult for pugs to do well in pvp. Even now you see it where pugs constantly break cc and won't focus fire targets. The skill set needed to do well in pvp for this game is far beyond what most pugs are capable of, and it will only result in afking, leaching, and people leaving war fronts. Queue times are going to rise and war fronts will be nothing more than a grind fest with so little competition that every game will have 1 side completely rolling the other.
    Duh, what else do you expect from a game with no Ranked PvP? ALl the PvP players will run premades and roll you because there's no ladder or other means to do anything else since everyone is queing random warfronts instead of world PvP.
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  8. #8
    Shadowlander
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    I honestly think half the players that enter WF don't even know what's going on yet. I pug every game and I have fun in every game win or loose. But I'm not at the point yet where I really know what's going on, I don't know enough about the classes and abilities, I don't even know what some of the CC looks like yet.
    If I kill someone, i know it's not because I am so good and I used my awesome pvppwning skills to do it, I got lucky, had more health, pressed my buttons faster or had help usually. But w/e it's fun, and I'll get better.

    Once players start to understand the game better, I think we'll see better PvP from them, even from pugs.

    As far as premades vs pugs, yeah any premade 2+ players will usually do better than 2 pugs. I don't think it will ever get to the point of pugs not queuing for WF, but if that happens, there's things that can be done like, queue premades vs premades, obviously noone likes to get destroyed every match.

    The afk and leeching thing should be taken care of right away, only Trion can do something about that.

  9. #9
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeaks View Post
    I honestly think half the players that enter WF don't even know what's going on yet. I pug every game and I have fun in every game win or loose. But I'm not at the point yet where I really know what's going on, I don't know enough about the classes and abilities, I don't even know what some of the CC looks like yet.
    If I kill someone, i know it's not because I am so good and I used my awesome pvppwning skills to do it, I got lucky, had more health, pressed my buttons faster or had help usually. But w/e it's fun, and I'll get better.

    Once players start to understand the game better, I think we'll see better PvP from them, even from pugs.

    As far as premades vs pugs, yeah any premade 2+ players will usually do better than 2 pugs. I don't think it will ever get to the point of pugs not queuing for WF, but if that happens, there's things that can be done like, queue premades vs premades, obviously noone likes to get destroyed every match.

    The afk and leeching thing should be taken care of right away, only Trion can do something about that.
    In T5 pvp with all the damage reduction abilities, cc, healing, and tanks running around with guard taunting people the window is so small that pugs will not be able to coordinate any type of attack against even the simplest of organized groups that have maxed their group.

  10. #10
    Champion of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by UglyPete View Post
    In T5 pvp with all the damage reduction abilities, cc, healing, and tanks running around with guard taunting people the window is so small that pugs will not be able to coordinate any type of attack against even the simplest of organized groups that have maxed their group.
    this isn't any different from any other pvp based games. Hell even in DAOC a 5 man high rank with good gear could kill literally 100+ puggies, without breaking a sweat at it.

    They just need to add in a pre made ranked wf queue, separate from the general one and be done with it.
    Last edited by Baconbits; 03-05-2011 at 03:49 PM.
    Do the herpty derp, please, keep LOSing your healers behind objects so you die.

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