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Thread: Information about PvP development

  1. #1
    Shadowlander
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    Default Information about PvP development

    Rift is set up perfectly. With the ability to constantly change your souls and classes being able to be more than one role, you have a game that allows players to evolve in the endgame along with their first characters in ways that no other game could. When I first looked at rift in the betas, I saw the PvP souls and thought 'They actually found a way to balanced souls for PvP without affecting PvE'. This is the reason that I decided to play PvP competively in Rift, other than staying in a game like WoW.

    During the last few betas and headstarts, I've seen a lot of players talking about how Trion wants PvP to be easy and something you do after PvE, just a minor part of the game that has no development or plans to make it competitive and as much of a part of Rift as PvE.

    A blue PvE dagger is better and has more endurance than a Epic PvP dagger that is 3 levels higher.

    My tanking warrior owns a rogue that is 10 levels higher.

    A mage has a skill that gives an instant cast when interrupted. A rogue has a skill that interrupts with every finisher. I wouldn't want to be the rogue that can't use his finishers for fear of triggering an instant cast. This skill must be skilled to get higher in the tree, and is passive.

    Melee classes have an interrupt without any silences, which reduces the effectiveness of a caster by the time it takes to press the button again.

    It seems like some basic PvP skills were thrown in without any thought.

    A riftblade warrior can spam flamespear, which does as much ranged damage as a marksman/ranger, more melee damage than an rogue, and has more health and armor than both. These are just some quick examples.

    A full set of the highest PvP gear (rank 5 and 6) only gives 12% damage reduction. While some players argue that PvP and PvE gear should not be seperated, I want to remind them that their hard earned raiding gear could be farmed by battleground leechers. 12% damage reduction will not stop PvE players from playing with their PvE gear anymore than 12% mob reduction would stop a PvP player from gaining the top raiding items, without any of the work.

    I have asked Trion questions on the forums, with ingame feedback, online support, and GM tickets. I asked what their plans were for PvP, how PvE and PvP would be seperated,if PvP would be balanced separately, or if it would only be balanced for PvE, and let PvP take the consequences, and how they are planning the differences for each equipment set. They told me that they cannot give me ingame hints, answered a small part of my request (such as answering the line asking for an option to choose 'other' in the support box, instead of the actual request), told me to 'ask people on my shard or the forums', or have not answered yet.

    I do understand that a game this new will have problems with imbalance, and a lack of features that it will have later. As paying customers, we deserve to know what their plans are, how they will deal with these, or if they are even focusing on the PvP aspect of the game. I want a reply from an administrator or developer that is directly working on this. This is my last try to get the information that a lot of people are looking for, and will decide whether we play the game or not.

    Please do not post on this thread if you did not read the entire post, or if it is not about Trion's plans for PvP. If you post something that 'Trion said', post your proof.
    Last edited by Schio; 03-04-2011 at 03:39 AM.

  2. #2
    Rift Disciple
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    Trion did not balance the game for PvP, because Trion assumed that most of their customers would focus on PvE content. Due to this lack of foresight, the game shipped with nonsensical balance issues. Because so many players picked up Rift for end-game PvP, I would expect Trion to attempt to balance the souls in the coming weeks, as many PvP-minded players will abandon the game at the 1 month limit should these blatant problems remain unaddressed.

  3. #3
    Plane Touched Aneu's Avatar
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    Couldnt have said it better myself, some of the things in this game make no sense to me. The only thing that does make sense is that they balanced RIFT around PvE and not PvP which really makes very little sense as competativeness is what gives a game longevity. Sure there are some people out there who look to compete at PvE rewards and such but that doesnt give you the personal reward that PvP does... My oppinion ofc.
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  4. #4
    Telaran zagz420's Avatar
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    I don't even understand the concept of balancing around PVE, its just frikin npcs with stupid scripted encounters.

  5. #5
    Telaran
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    I totally agree with most of what you said. Would like to add that the full instant heal for 8 points in paladin soul is also broken for pvp. Raise it up to 44 or something.

    Riftstalker plane shifts cause you to fall through the world most of the time as well. Makes planar shifting in in pvp fights where its needed the most, very risky and not fun.

    Riftblade is also a joke, so are all the instant spells on casters.

    They need to add some rez timers if you get killed by players too.. cause when you stomp people a few times near their spawn point and they just keep coming and eventually zerg you down because you can't rest or get away.. that's stupid.

  6. #6
    Champion of Telara
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    they only feed with promises without any actual info, i start to think those promises would never be done.
    **** we cant even capture enemy wardstones, what pvp you talking about when creeps got more rights than players?

  7. #7
    Plane Touched Kokhlos's Avatar
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    great post, i too hope these issues are addressed.
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  8. #8
    Rift Master Braves's Avatar
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    Agree, and I also believe Trion is going to take look at PvP in the coming weeks. I personally expected the game to be unbalanced due to it being ~2 weeks old, and after playing WoW release, this is MUCH better.
    Reflex - Cleric
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drakedog
    how does a french PvP server work?.... do you all just take turns surrendering?

  9. #9
    Soulwalker Maluco's Avatar
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    I do agree that PvP balancing needs to be addressed. However, I think that the smoothness of this launch (smoothest launch of an MMO Ive ever seen) is making the problems glare out to people which makes them impatient. This game is just now releasing in Europe and has only been out for less than a week in USA.
    Can you have some patience for once? Theyve spent tons and tons of time and its been less than a week and your already moaning about not playing?

    I can understand this kind of a post in the last week of your free month. Otherwise, just give it time to see what they come up with. From what Ive seen, they do listen to the players and they keep them informed as much as needed. If theres a PvP revamp we will know about it; mostly because if there isnt one they would lose a lot of customers.

  10. #10
    Rift Disciple Dawning's Avatar
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    Thank you for the well written and thought out thread, it's refreshing to see things like this instead of constant knee jerk posts. As was stated before Trion didn't really gear their game to include any more than rudimentary pvp, a lot of the development focus went into PVE content and more of an open world pvp dynamic. I remember at around beta 4 is when the PVP community seemed to embrace Rift and I think it caught Trion a little off guard.

    I'm not sure how many people will give Trion the time they need to address all the issues people are having but I really see more of a pvp focus in the coming months as the last few beta events were mainly there to stress test their hardware and get their entire team trained for a launch and overall running of an MMO platform.

    Right now PVP isn't unplayable, there are classes and souls that have a definite edge over others but being one of those "OP" souls I can tell you several ways that I can be easily beat 1v1 and certainly with a little teamwork from the other faction. I may make a thread on how to kill my soul just to try to appease the masses.
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  11. #11
    Rift Master Braves's Avatar
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    Reflex - Cleric
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drakedog
    how does a french PvP server work?.... do you all just take turns surrendering?

  12. #12
    Shadowlander
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    There isn't a word in that link (not even the barest hint) that they have any PvP-related plans for the first major content update.

    I am beginning to feel like those of us who purchased Rift because we hoped for a good PvP game have perhaps been fooling ourselves. I think some of us wanted it to happen so much that we ignored the warning signs pointing to yet another PvE game with PvP as an afterthought.

    We'll see.

  13. #13
    Shadowlander
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    There is no such thing as complete balance. When we call for balance, we want classes to be able to compete with each other fully. This means a warrior can fight a rogue or mage 1v1 and while they have different playstyles, different survivability, and different damage, with equal skill they would kill each other at approximately the same time. This is not boring. This is taking all other variables as the same, and only changing the class variable, and seeing that those 2 class variables are balanced, so that other variables will determine the win.

    I do not want my class to decide if I win or lose. I want all classes to have different skills, range, visibility, survivablity, cc, mobility, health, reactive abilities and self healing. I want every class to be chosen for their style. What they can do in certain situations. Not the fact that it can always kill another class 1v1. I do not want to ever see any class be able to kill another class regardless of what they do because it is their 'counter'. You can be slightly more powerful against your counter class, but you absolutely should not be able to be carried so much that you would win no matter how poorly you play.

    Trion has shown blatantly poor balancing and PvP development. We deserve to know what they plan to do.

  14. #14
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry King View Post
    Trion did not balance the game for PvP, because Trion assumed that most of their customers would focus on PvE content. Due to this lack of foresight, the game shipped with nonsensical balance issues. Because so many players picked up Rift for end-game PvP, I would expect Trion to attempt to balance the souls in the coming weeks, as many PvP-minded players will abandon the game at the 1 month limit should these blatant problems remain unaddressed.
    Um, according to this the game was designed with PvP in mind from the get-go:
    http://telarapedia.com/wiki/Player_vs_Player

    Rift is set up perfectly. With the ability to constantly change your souls and classes being able to be more than one role, you have a game that allows players to evolve in the endgame along with their first characters in ways that no other game could.
    You should probably check out Guild Wars then. The Souls system is basically a scaled down version of that. Mesh some of Guild Wars together with EQ2, Warhammer and World of Warcraft and you get Rift. I'm not saying that the game is crap by any means, but it's highly unoriginal and from the moment I started playing it I felt like it was a game I had been playing, and quit, years ago.

    Rift is a snooze-fest.

  15. #15
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasquatauch View Post
    Um, according to this the game was designed with PvP in mind from the get-go:
    http://telarapedia.com/wiki/Player_vs_Player
    Everything mentioned on this page is referenced to things that do not actually state that. According to the forum posts referenced in [3] -

    "The info was there to reinforce that we would have PvP servers from the outset, and our game would have its own distinctive PvP gameplay reinforced both in content and systems. Definitely not that PvE servers would force people into PvP as a matter of course."

    This does not in any way say that the game was designed for PvP, it says that they 'included' PvP.

    Reference [4] ('classes and abilities are balanced with PvP in mind') is a post talking about the fact that developers are from multiple games and have experience in MMOs.

    These are the only two statements on Rift-Wiki that have anything to do with Trion actually balancing the game for PvP. Neither of these statements have valid references, or anything that states clearly that Trion wants classes to be balanced around PvP and be competitive and a major part of gameplay.
    Last edited by Laci; 03-05-2011 at 12:43 AM.

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