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Thread: Why the hate for "ganks?"

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Default Why the hate for "ganks?"

    Allow me to preface this discussion by saying my only other MMO experience is Eve online. For those that never played, we have a saying there, "There is no such thing as a fair fight." Pretty much every fight you have, someone is going to be at the disadvantage. Fortunately, the folks that play Eve understand this, so you don't get people complaining nonstop about how noob people are that wait for a good moment to strike. If you want an ostensibly fair PvP experience, join a WF. World PvP is, in my opinion, about awareness, patience, and guile. All of the arguments on the forums I read about people hating on "gankers" is because they wait for an advantage. Duh!

    Why wouldn't anyone wait for an advantage? If you're worried about being ganked by a sole stealther, roll up in a group. It's supposed to be a multiplayer game anyway. A sole stealther isn't going to be able to kill a small group. So he then will have to roll in a group himself. Unless they're all stealthers, you'll see them coming. You have zone chat for the very good purpose of communicating with your faction about PvP groups. Sole stealth ganks are so easy to counter its laughable, but half of the world PvP haters on the forums are completely against any change to their playstyle.

    On a similar note, I get very little thrill from PvP in any form in this game. It's fun right now because it's new, but in the end, what's the worst that happens? You die, rez, and spend maybe 10 gold to repair soul vitality. Whoopdeedoo. The reason Eve was such a great PvP game is that when you die, your ship and gear is gone. As it is now, there is very little risk and reward for world PvP. If they fix the tagging problem so favor is earned in world PvP, there is at least a reward for PvP. Most people can't stand the idea of actually risking their internet pixels, so I won't go into the risk portion.

    TL;DR
    World PvP is fun, but it should have rewards like all other activities in the game.
    Ganking IS world PvP. If you want something fair, go to a warfront.
    If you don't want to get stealther ganked, role in a group, problem solved.

  2. #2
    Rift Chaser Xerac's Avatar
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    I approve of this thread, and with virtually no death penality, if you get ganked, group up get revenge and camp his ***!
    Dogma's guild leader
    Guardian US Seastone guild.
    Now recruiting mature players, for PvP and PvE, apply on the forums at www.dogmaguild.org

  3. #3
    Soulwalker
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    +1 for this thread. Coming from a game like Lineage 2, I can totally understand where you're coming from. There was almost no form of a "fair" fight in world PvP. Even in 1v1's, there were always classes that countered other classes so it was never really "even". World PvP is fun, but it definitely needs some better rewards and penalties.

  4. #4
    Rift Master Rhendali's Avatar
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    I agree. You said everything I wanted to only WAY nicer. ^.^ In my opinion, if you have such an issue with ganking, re-roll on a PvE server. Trion themselves said:
    Quote Originally Posted by Hartsman View Post
    If you choose to play on a PvP server, itís our assumption that you not only donít mind that level of interruption from that PvP attack-and-defense style of gameplay, but are actively excited about taking part in it. If you want uninterrupted PvE questing, choosing a PvE server is definitely recommended.
    - The RIFT Development Team
    Nymaeria < Hate > : Level 50 Eth Cleric (Sentinel/Warden/Justicar) on Briarcliff
    Rhendali < Hate > : Level 50 Eth Rogue (Riftstalker/Bladedancer/Ranger) on Briarcliff

  5. #5
    Telaran Slurm's Avatar
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    There isn't really any point to world pvp in this game that I can see but it doesn't bother me. What would bother me is if people quit doing it. Just having enemies and guilds to hate is enough for me. I would still prefer ffa though.

  6. #6
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slurm View Post
    There isn't really any point to world pvp in this game that I can see but it doesn't bother me. What would bother me is if people quit doing it. Just having enemies and guilds to hate is enough for me. I would still prefer ffa though.
    People will quit doing it because, why bother? I've been in Moonshades for two days, and even though there were Defiant everywhere, I hardly ever got attacked. Why? Because it would interrupt their questing. The 30 seconds to fight me was too inconsequential for them to stop questing. If you throw in good favor rewards (imo they should be better than warfront rewards), that will get people's attention. Just because it is a PvP game doesn't mean people will PvP just for the sake of doing it. There still needs to be some sort of tangible reward. In Eve, you got a killmail, loot, and in bigger alliance level stuff, the resources the enemy was protecting. Here, you get...nothing. Guess which game has more PvP?

    I know there's the argument that if you can "farm" favor from world PvP, people will abuse that system. I, for one, would rather have a broken system that a few abuse that gets people PvPing than the current system. However, I think a few things would make the favor farming negligible. Reduce rewards for killing the same player repeatedly, and declining rewards for each level lower they are, to a point of 0 favor for lowbies. Likewise, you should get really high favor for killing someone higher level than you.

    Something else that could be considered, to give a risk/reward for PvP, how about losing favor when you die to a player? That will definitely give people a reason to group up (remember, Multiplayer game here). This is already in effect, to a point, in warfronts, where the losing side gets very little favor. Just an idea, and I'm sure the carebears will balk at any mechanic which provides a tangible risk. But maybe I like things a little hardcore.

  7. #7
    Rift Master Dankshasta's Avatar
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    I gank, tbh
    Quote Originally Posted by Seether View Post
    I need 900 valor, and a healer to kill Dankshasta
    "How do i pwn so good?"

    DARKFALL PvP!!

  8. #8
    Plane Touched Reveille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaden Khale View Post
    Allow me to preface this discussion by saying my only other MMO experience is Eve online. For those that never played, we have a saying there, "There is no such thing as a fair fight." Pretty much every fight you have, someone is going to be at the disadvantage. Fortunately, the folks that play Eve understand this, so you don't get people complaining nonstop about how noob people are that wait for a good moment to strike. If you want an ostensibly fair PvP experience, join a WF. World PvP is, in my opinion, about awareness, patience, and guile. All of the arguments on the forums I read about people hating on "gankers" is because they wait for an advantage. Duh!

    Why wouldn't anyone wait for an advantage? If you're worried about being ganked by a sole stealther, roll up in a group. It's supposed to be a multiplayer game anyway. A sole stealther isn't going to be able to kill a small group. So he then will have to roll in a group himself. Unless they're all stealthers, you'll see them coming. You have zone chat for the very good purpose of communicating with your faction about PvP groups. Sole stealth ganks are so easy to counter its laughable, but half of the world PvP haters on the forums are completely against any change to their playstyle.

    On a similar note, I get very little thrill from PvP in any form in this game. It's fun right now because it's new, but in the end, what's the worst that happens? You die, rez, and spend maybe 10 gold to repair soul vitality. Whoopdeedoo. The reason Eve was such a great PvP game is that when you die, your ship and gear is gone. As it is now, there is very little risk and reward for world PvP. If they fix the tagging problem so favor is earned in world PvP, there is at least a reward for PvP. Most people can't stand the idea of actually risking their internet pixels, so I won't go into the risk portion.

    TL;DR
    World PvP is fun, but it should have rewards like all other activities in the game.
    Ganking IS world PvP. If you want something fair, go to a warfront.
    If you don't want to get stealther ganked, role in a group, problem solved.
    Pretty much, except its costing almost a platinum now to repair soul, not sure why it has to be so pricy seriously.

  9. #9
    Plane Touched Reveille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaden Khale View Post
    People will quit doing it because, why bother? I've been in Moonshades for two days, and even though there were Defiant everywhere, I hardly ever got attacked. Why? Because it would interrupt their questing. The 30 seconds to fight me was too inconsequential for them to stop questing. If you throw in good favor rewards (imo they should be better than warfront rewards), that will get people's attention. Just because it is a PvP game doesn't mean people will PvP just for the sake of doing it. There still needs to be some sort of tangible reward. In Eve, you got a killmail, loot, and in bigger alliance level stuff, the resources the enemy was protecting. Here, you get...nothing. Guess which game has more PvP?

    I know there's the argument that if you can "farm" favor from world PvP, people will abuse that system. I, for one, would rather have a broken system that a few abuse that gets people PvPing than the current system. However, I think a few things would make the favor farming negligible. Reduce rewards for killing the same player repeatedly, and declining rewards for each level lower they are, to a point of 0 favor for lowbies. Likewise, you should get really high favor for killing someone higher level than you.

    Something else that could be considered, to give a risk/reward for PvP, how about losing favor when you die to a player? That will definitely give people a reason to group up (remember, Multiplayer game here). This is already in effect, to a point, in warfronts, where the losing side gets very little favor. Just an idea, and I'm sure the carebears will balk at any mechanic which provides a tangible risk. But maybe I like things a little hardcore.
    I totally agree with this idea!

  10. #10
    Sword of Telara
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    Because anyone who Ganks lowbies (near equal level is fair game) is pathetic and should have rolled a pve server as its bascially admitting they are crap at pvp and can only get their kicks from making other people's lives miserable and could not win a fair fight so they seek lowbies to boost their self image and delude themselves into thinking they are good.

    Equal level ambushes and whatever are fair game, you take your licks and you get them, But where is the fun is attacking people who cant fight back? You may aswel attack a training dummy for all the skill it takes.

  11. #11
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by zetans View Post
    Because anyone who Ganks lowbies (near equal level is fair game) is pathetic and should have rolled a pve server as its bascially admitting they are crap at pvp and can only get their kicks from making other people's lives miserable and could not win a fair fight so they seek lowbies to boost their self image and delude themselves into thinking they are good.

    Equal level ambushes and whatever are fair game, you take your licks and you get them, But where is the fun is attacking people who cant fight back? You may aswel attack a training dummy for all the skill it takes.
    Which is why I would want a system where after a certain level discrepancy, rewards are no longer garnered. In fact, you could even implement a system where attacking a grey that hasn't attacked you first results in a loss of favor.

  12. #12
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaden Khale View Post
    Which is why I would want a system where after a certain level discrepancy, rewards are no longer garnered. In fact, you could even implement a system where attacking a grey that hasn't attacked you first results in a loss of favor.
    I totally agree with this idea. There is a difference between PvP and PvC (player vs. critter, which is basically what it's like when a level 50 kills a level 20). I also think that there should be some sort of scaling system so that if I get killed by a level 50 and I'm only level 20, I shouldn't have to repair my soul. Fifteen gold over and over because some bored level 50 is spawn camping doesn't make sense to me when I only have 2p to my name.

    The system should encourage fights that occur between characters that are relatively close in level and discourage fights where one person doesn't even stand a chance.

  13. #13
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaden Khale View Post

    TL;DR
    World PvP is fun, but it should have rewards like all other activities in the game.
    Ganking IS world PvP. If you want something fair, go to a warfront.
    If you don't want to get stealther ganked, role in a group, problem solved.
    Agreed
    There is a third option, and its still not fair, but there is less ganking
    Many do not enjoy playing stealthy stabbies, and to not play one on a pvp server is to feel like a human in a world where vampires are real. Stay in groups, join us, or be a victim. Not cool options, imo.

  14. #14
    Soulwalker
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    Yeah I like the idea.

    However, I'm thinking people will abuse it. Who says someone just doesn't have a friend create an alt in the opposite faction and just kill each other for sweet rewards. Yes boring and probably a minority but if the reward is there, people will find a way to exploit it.

    I know you mentioned killing the same person reduces your reward. Sure, but that can't last forever.

    But all in all, I think it is a good idea. Just needs some tweaking and such.
    Last edited by McPapples; 03-04-2011 at 09:37 PM.

  15. #15
    Rift Master nacho's Avatar
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    Ganking sucks right now because the high levels are still out of reach for the majority of the players, so you can't really fight back atm.
    You just have to put up with it for now.

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