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Thread: The mystery behind the claim that Guardians win most Warfronts.

  1. #1
    Telaran
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    Default The mystery behind the claim that Guardians win most Warfronts.

    I have read and heard many theories from players as to why it seems that Guardians on "certain" servers are winning most War fronts. These theories include everything from Guardian Teams made up of only Clerics and Rogues, to most Guardian teams being "Pre-mades".
    Yet, there always seems to be 1 or 2 Defiant players out of every 10 or Defiant players who claim to never lose or hardly ever lose.
    Also, the general concensus it that there are actually twice as many or more Defiant than Guardian on most servers, which would negate the Guardian advantage....I feel the OPPOSITE IS TRUE, as having one side more populated than the other helps contribute to the unbalance in a "negative" way for the higher populated side, i.e. Defiant, because that causes Warfronts to collect players for each seperate match from a larger pool of players than Guardian. Which means the side (Guardians) with a lower population is at an advantage because the odds are increased that with each Warfront they will have a higher chance of the same players being grouped together more consistantly as well as the odds a Defiant PUG (randon/pick up group) or PRE MADE will be going up against Guardian Pre-Mades.

    Based on my own BETA, pre-release, and now release Warfront experiences, I noticed that on the weekends when server populations are high there seems to be more balance between wins for the two sides. Whereas, during low server population time periods, there is unbalance from Guardians "seemingly" winning most Warfronts during that low pop period. To test this theory, I logged in to the game during a low population timeframe and noticed a few things.

    FIRST, Defiant lost 10 out of the 10 matches I entered during a 1.5 hour period.

    SECOND, the Warfront popped INSTANTLY as soon as I qued for it, regardless of how long I waited to re-que. MOREOVER, every single time Guardian was "roughly" winning "four fold" in points at any stage of the match; for example, 40-10, 100 - 25, 400-100, etc.

    THIRD, it seemed in each and every match during this 1.5 hour period that Defiant players were mostly just standing near the spawn point either AFK or just watching.

    As a result of all of the above, my conclusion is that the cause of justified Defiant claims of Guardians dominating Warfronts is due to (1) Higher numbers of Defiants queing for Warfronts than Guardians due to higher Defiant player populations, which causes the chance of a Defiant PUG going up against either a Guardian pre-made, or a Guardian PUG group that is finding the same players or most of the same players in each Warfront over a given period, and less chance a Defiant pre-made or Defiant PUG will go up against a Guardian PUG.

    I really cannot think of any other reason or theory for this. Now one caveat!!!!!!
    In WoW, when I was Alliance it seemed Horde won more, but then after I changed my race to Horde, it seemed Alliance won more! DOH!
    I have heard many players claim this very same thing, i.e. they change race to avoid a negative inbalance in BGs or WFsonly to find the "grass is not greener" on the other side.

    What do you all think?

  2. #2
    Shadowlander Draik's Avatar
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    not sure what server you are playing on but it seems to be quite the opposite, at least at the higher lvl WF's. It I was lvl 30 in the first 2 days of head start and it always seemed that the defiant always had at least 1 or 2 more players. (when there is only 4-5 in the match thats a big deal) but further into the levels the guardian got more players.. My only explanation was that the defiant were lvling faster, thus had more people, but in these battle grounds where the guardian were outnumbered they very rarely won.


    I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells. Fantasy is a necessary ingredient in living, It's a way of looking at life through the wrong end of a telescope. Which is what I do, And that enables you to laugh at life's realities.

  3. #3
    Shadowlander
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    All it boils down to is people knowing what to do, when to do it. No mystery, no drawn out theory.

  4. #4
    Soulwalker
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    Default -___-

    do not know about mysteries, but i do know facts...

    a friend of mine and me started in the beta with rift...

    we both play as defiants...

    and the win lose relation is 1:15... sometimes worse... -___-


    and even WoW got it handled better with the balance...

    there was never such a high lose relation like here in rift...

    it does not make any fun at all to enter the warfronts...


    of course... u cant always win, but always lose?


    and we dont wanna talk about healer^^


    and I know, the game just started...

    but... cmon!

    I better prefer to wait a minute longer for a match, then to get slaughtered all day long...


    PvP Balance =

  5. #5
    Soulwalker noitek's Avatar
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    I play both Guardian, and Defiant characters. I have a roughly equal win/loss ratio between the two factions.

    It comes down to healing, or the lack of, and people knowing what the heck they're doing. If half your team is standing around in the middle with their thumb up their ***, beating on one warrior while he's being healed by a cleric or two, rather than going after the fang holder, or capping/defending objectives, or whatever, that might be why you're losing??

    Also, having the most damage on the scoreboard does not win matches in, and of, itself. Nor will it cure your ED. Yeah, killing that one ******ed Stormcaller that keeps getting lost will boost your kills, and leave you with the high K/D ratio that the ladies look for in a mate, but it won't win you the match.

    None of this is exclusive to one side. Plenty of people on both sides that couldn't find their arse with both hands and a map.

    And for those crying about how they have a 15:1 L:W ratio, or whatever: Have you considered that the thing those matches have in common is you?

  6. #6
    Telaran
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    I think the reason is during less busy times, warfronts are starting out with 1-2 less defiant players than guardian players. At least for the first 30-60 seconds.

    This might not seem to be a huge deal, but starting off on the losing end can be a big morale hit. Not only will players play worse, they are more likely to afk or exit out, so the problem compounds even after the number of players is balanced.

  7. #7
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draik View Post
    not sure what server you are playing on but it seems to be quite the opposite, at least at the higher lvl WF's. It I was lvl 30 in the first 2 days of head start and it always seemed that the defiant always had at least 1 or 2 more players. (when there is only 4-5 in the match thats a big deal) but further into the levels the guardian got more players.. My only explanation was that the defiant were lvling faster, thus had more people, but in these battle grounds where the guardian were outnumbered they very rarely won.
    Server DOES NOT MATTER.

    Warfronts are Cross-Server
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    Server: Faemist - Cleric: ZeitFist. Rogue: Zeitgeist. Mage: Ceadeus

  8. #8
    Shadowlander Amadaius's Avatar
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    i have never been in a WF where there was more than 1 person afk, from my experience defiant really does try to win but just fails for somereason or another, Mostly cause no one can kill anyone cause of the healers

  9. #9
    Prophet of Telara
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    Most of the healer problem is because of bards if you face a team with 5 bards or 5 mages and 3 bards it's usually a loss. Stacking support healers is where the problem is not cleric heals.
    Lately I've noticed in 20-29 bracket that defiant (reclaimer) always have at least 3-5 bards. No amount of damage/pressure breaks that and Codex some cases it been a total stand off with both sides doing nothing bu exchanging blows while bard/purifier heals the damage.
    I'd still call them servers as their seems to be distinct grouping of a number of server.






  10. #10
    Ascendant Kronos v's Avatar
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    i've seen similar situations in other games, and always it has come down to heals, or the lack there of.
    the ratio of healers to other classes always seems to be higher on the 'good' side, while the 'evil' faction has more dps. this might have something to do with the kind of players attracted to either faction.

  11. #11
    Sword of Telara
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    Actually its far more simple than this.

    I'm playing Guardian and typically we start of losing consistently after I log in, to winning after a few of us start explaining how to win the WF to the rest of the team as each match starts.

    Because there are fewer of us after about 10 matches you typically know which players you are with can play and which can't so you just focus on assisting them and ignore the *****. You probably don't have that luxury on Defiant.

    I usually pug and usually (after the initial matches failed while coordinating) win all my matches.

  12. #12
    Rift Disciple CherryWasHere's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kronos v View Post
    i've seen similar situations in other games, and always it has come down to heals, or the lack there of.
    the ratio of healers to other classes always seems to be higher on the 'good' side, while the 'evil' faction has more dps. this might have something to do with the kind of players attracted to either faction.
    I always kinda thought that too. I feel that there is rarely a shortage of clerics in Guardian warfronts.
    Showtime, P50 Guardian Warrior
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  13. #13
    Champion of Telara
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    The common element is the player.

    I'd guess I win atleast half my games, and I'd further guess I win the majority of my matches. I'm defiant. In the matches I lose, I always hear people say they always lose. I've even heard it from a few people in my guild.

    The difference is the player. And it's not hard things usually, it's simple things. Do you know how many times people chase people away from the flags in codex? All the time. As I sit there alone watching the flag, I know - if I was not here they would probably be losing.

    Is it a coincidence that when you have a group take off for the vault at the start you lose? No. And in this case, it's simply a matter of people not knowing the codex gives most points. All you have to do is tell people - the codex gives 5 pts per tick, the rest give 3, and people somehow magically don't "suck" anymore.

    Sometimes you just lose and get kicked. Bad team matchmaking or whatever. But if you are losing more than half your warfronts, then it's time for YOU to figure out what you are doing that is not helping.

  14. #14
    Soulwalker
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    I have not noticed a big difference in win/loss as other people have, for me it seems more like 60%/40% in favor of guardians. I play a healer and I would have to agree that guardians have way more people that play healers. I cannot begin to guess on why a person who plays a healer would gravitate towards guardian but it seems so. I find it a little frustrating sometimes cause we can have a hard time getting a needed kill due to lack of damage when we have games that are sometimes 80% healers on our side.

  15. #15
    Telaran Roxx's Avatar
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    Whoever plays better, and plays the map correctly, wins.

    There is no mystery here whatsoever.

    PUGs are PUGs, don't gamble on them if you want to win consistently.
    Briarcliff PvP or it doesn't count.

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