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Thread: Losing Warfronts and you!

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Default Losing Warfronts and you!

    So the game is out, but I've been playing since beta, and I've noticed a general skewed win/loss record between guardian and defiant. Guardians well.. they win a lot. Now, that's not my concern because I realize that a faction will struggle and the Defiant player base has yet to really define itself.

    Thats all well and fine,
    but is it just me, or does losing a warfront feel just like an awful waste of time. I spent hours pvping this evening with no victory and with me at the top of my team. I lost due to afkers and people focusing tanks and yet I gained only 1 favor throughout 2 matches. Now I don't know if this was an unintended bug, but it seems that 1 favor is particuarlly low for an hour of pvp. I'd love to see a little more incentive for the faction that struggles to que up more, despite the very real chance that they will indeed fail miserably. Especially since some of the level 50 pieces cost about 49,000 favor. That's quite a bit of grinding for a ring, eh?

    Thoughts? Concerns? Complaints?

  2. #2
    Champion Mivo's Avatar
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    I think it depends on when you play, and what bracket you're in. In 10-19, I lost most Black Garden games (as Defiant) when I played late at night. During the day, it was mostly wins. In 20-29, I have probably won 80% of the Codex matches, regardless of the time of the day.

    But there is a huge random factor right now. If your side consists mostly of level 20s, and the other team is full of 28-29s, you probably lose. Same with healers and bards.

    I don't doubt that one faction will turn out to be the stronger one, and then that side will end up with long warfront queues. It'll be a vicious circle because the losing side will just want to "lose fast" so they get xp and favour, and people just afk because "it doesn't matter".

    That's when more initiatives will be needed to counter-balance that trend, either by buffs or rewards before those who are interested in warfronts change the faction. Like you suggested, pretty much. But I do think it's best to wait until a substantial number of people are 50 so we see how things are. It may be "too late" by then (without a way of changing the faction), but right now it's all so much in flux, it's hard to predict which faction will be the stronger one.

  3. #3
    Rift Disciple Anraas's Avatar
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    Guardians have stacked teams every time.

    It is generally 4-7 rogues and 4-5 clerics on their team at all time. Where as Defiant actually has a diverse team that if balance existed at all should have a higher chance at success.

    It's silly really.

  4. #4
    Soulwalker
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    If you average out the wins/losses over a year I'm sure you'd find it's only a few percentage points off. Mmo-champion just did a study like this for that other game and that's what they found. I've hit losing streaks in pvp before and it makes you think your faction always loses but it simply isn't true. It averages out over the long haul, you just get a bad day once in a while.

  5. #5
    Champion Mivo's Avatar
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    The "other game" doesn't track how many times a player leaves a battleground before it is completed, and many Alliance players do that, so any numbers MMO Champion may present are bound to be incorrect. It also doesn't take into account premades or semi-premades. When I still played that game, I usually ran with premades (vs. PUGs), which pretty much guaranteed a win. If I queued solo as Alliance, I'd lose about 80% of my games (I kept track of it for a while). Similarly, my Horde character (who wasn't a healer and whose class I didn't play as well as my Alliance character's) had a win rate of 72% (I never left a game and never did premades). Small samples, of course, but yes, faction imbalances do exist in that game -- and it's a vicious circle, really. It develops over a longer period of time and Blizzard never did anything in order to balance it. Quite the opposite, actually. But faction changes generate money, so, it makes sense for them.

  6. #6
    Soulwalker Drojdier's Avatar
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    On the other hand, I can tell you that I lost most matches when I was on a Guardian and won most of my matches as Defiant. It's very very early to draw some conclusions. People are still learning the game and trying different soul combination.

    Some people can't even yet tell one calling from the other. I had one match where we (defiants) were losing badly, it was 300 - 20 or something and I noticed that no one else was hitting the only healer the enemies had. I told them on raid chat to focus on the healer but still no change. Then I specifically told them the nickname and the guy insta-died, the match turned and we won.

    All in all, you shouldn't worry too much at this moment about balance in warfronts. Atm, I use warfronts just as practice to get used to my own skill sets and the pros and cons of my soul combo. If I win, great success, if not, it's no big deal.

  7. #7
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anraas View Post
    Guardians have stacked teams every time.

    It is generally 4-7 rogues and 4-5 clerics on their team at all time. Where as Defiant actually has a diverse team that if balance existed at all should have a higher chance at success.

    It's silly really.
    That is not true. Guardians often have unbalanced teams (sometimes 90% rogues and 10% mages/warriors/clerics) and still lose often, especially in the 10-19 and 20-29 bracket. At least on Deepstrike. To get on a winning streak of at least three war fronts is like christmas coming early

  8. #8
    Rift Disciple Ffionn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zozo View Post
    no victory and with me at the top of my team
    Warfronts isn't about rankings, it's about the entire group winning, so less random player/pig duck-shoot & more attacking the carrier, healers, or defending your team's carrier in tactical places, not only will that help win, it equates to more favor, staying alive longer, more kills and more general points. Also communicate to the group if you're playing a leading roll.

    I do agree though the skew has to be addressed, something doesn't smell right at fish bay. If my arm was twisted I'd say it's either that more people roll melee for defiants ... because they want to be oh so evil killer types, and more people roll tankish healing clerics, rag wearing mage-healers or tin can tanks than simple dps for Guardians, being so nicey nicey.

    Perhaps the solution is to have an option to have some form of organized recruiting system to help balance parties with the classes people want - that is, as well as the current solo and group joins, since such group forming would take longer. An advantage, it would also help the idea of team play and organization across random groupings.

    [rant off]

  9. #9
    Telaran Nihlus's Avatar
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    maybe it might be the demographic, more defiant players are religious and choos to play clerics lol. Would love to see some soul choic by faction data.

  10. #10
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mivo View Post
    The "other game" doesn't track how many times a player leaves a battleground before it is completed, and many Alliance players do that, so any numbers MMO Champion may present are bound to be incorrect. It also doesn't take into account premades or semi-premades. When I still played that game, I usually ran with premades (vs. PUGs), which pretty much guaranteed a win. If I queued solo as Alliance, I'd lose about 80% of my games (I kept track of it for a while). Similarly, my Horde character (who wasn't a healer and whose class I didn't play as well as my Alliance character's) had a win rate of 72% (I never left a game and never did premades). Small samples, of course, but yes, faction imbalances do exist in that game -- and it's a vicious circle, really. It develops over a longer period of time and Blizzard never did anything in order to balance it. Quite the opposite, actually. But faction changes generate money, so, it makes sense for them.
    Both sides are still going to have people leaving matches, making premades, and all manner of other little variations. And all those little variations will average out to about 50/50 over time. It makes sense.

  11. #11
    Plane Touched Warrender's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zozo View Post
    So the game is out, but I've been playing since beta, and I've noticed a general skewed win/loss record between guardian and defiant. Guardians well.. they win a lot. Now, that's not my concern because I realize that a faction will struggle and the Defiant player base has yet to really define itself.

    Thats all well and fine,
    but is it just me, or does losing a warfront feel just like an awful waste of time. I spent hours pvping this evening with no victory and with me at the top of my team. I lost due to afkers and people focusing tanks and yet I gained only 1 favor throughout 2 matches. Now I don't know if this was an unintended bug, but it seems that 1 favor is particuarlly low for an hour of pvp. I'd love to see a little more incentive for the faction that struggles to que up more, despite the very real chance that they will indeed fail miserably. Especially since some of the level 50 pieces cost about 49,000 favor. That's quite a bit of grinding for a ring, eh?

    Thoughts? Concerns? Complaints?
    Losing warfronts should always feel like a waste of time. If you're not in it to win it, don't bother playing IMO. Giving more incentives will just lead problems that plague other games like AFKing or fishing in battlegrounds.

  12. #12
    Champion of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warrender View Post
    Losing warfronts should always feel like a waste of time. If you're not in it to win it, don't bother playing IMO. Giving more incentives will just lead problems that plague other games like AFKing or fishing in battlegrounds.
    I think the point is that is sucks when you bust your rear but get stuck with a bad team(happens) and even though you are doing alot(to win) you end up with less favor for doing so.

  13. #13
    Soulwalker
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    This is all well and fine, and I realize that the due to the cross server queing, the win loss ratio will fluctuate so rapidly, that any sort of tracking would be moot, but it's the rewards that i'm concerned about. It's already been mentioned that experience doesnt scale well with the upper brackets, making pvp a backseat method of leveling which already disincentivizes WF's in the upper brackets, but the utter lack of favor due to losing is the biggest issue. Losing should not be such a huge and utter failure. I know "Effort points" are sad, but even the loser should walk away with SOMETHING. How much favor are you guys usually getting after a loss?

  14. #14
    Champion Mivo's Avatar
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    If you reward players for losing, it will only weaken the weaker faction, because "losing fast" (if you have instant queues, which the weaker side will have after some time) will be more lucrative than trying to win.

    Ideally, losing should not give any favour or any XP, but I realise that this is probably too hardcore for most people.

  15. #15
    Plane Touched
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    Quote Originally Posted by perlfreak View Post
    I think the point is that is sucks when you bust your rear but get stuck with a bad team(happens) and even though you are doing alot(to win) you end up with less favor for doing so.
    You didn't bust your rear if you got stuck with a bad team.

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