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Thread: Tanks , please ehlp

  1. #1
    Shadowlander
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    Default Tanks , please ehlp

    Hi,

    I have been tanking WoW for long time , without issues as it matches my play style needs , specially the aggro control , I get a message of change of target , and even when using addon like Tidy Plates , the plate on the mob changes (in size or color).

    I am having little issues in RIFT with aggro control , as I can't react quick to mobs that attack melee party members , or casters attacking any of my party members. I know Tanks should not loose aggro in first place , I know dps should attack my target , but things happen and that is why we have the Taunt abilities.

    I need your help , how do you manage your aggro control ? I have problems adjusting to RIFT in this regards , otherwise , I Love RIFT instances so far ..

    Thank you

    Please ignore spelling error on the subject
    Last edited by auset; 02-28-2011 at 03:19 AM.

  2. #2
    Lai
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    Its been a long time, but if you can remember how it was tanking in WoW Vanilla, then you'll understand whats going on. Tanking souls (I say souls because rogue and clerics have them as well as warriors) have abilities to force enemy units to force attack you when they start getting on others. This is standard knowledge. Now when I say remember WoW Vanilla, when you would run through a 5 man instance, you brought a tank, a healer, some dps, and always a CC. Rift is no different in that sometimes CC is needed, which in my opinion adds to the challenge and forces tactical decisions rather than 2 button spam through the whole game. Us Tanks have to rely on our team to do their job as well by: Attacking our targets, CCing mobs, not breaking CC. The threat generating abilities do indeed have high threat, its not just a tool tip. But we can help our groups by communicating which marks get CC'd and which ones get hit first.

  3. #3
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lai View Post
    Its been a long time, but if you can remember how it was tanking in WoW Vanilla, then you'll understand whats going on. Tanking souls (I say souls because rogue and clerics have them as well as warriors) have abilities to force enemy units to force attack you when they start getting on others. This is standard knowledge. Now when I say remember WoW Vanilla, when you would run through a 5 man instance, you brought a tank, a healer, some dps, and always a CC. Rift is no different in that sometimes CC is needed, which in my opinion adds to the challenge and forces tactical decisions rather than 2 button spam through the whole game. Us Tanks have to rely on our team to do their job as well by: Attacking our targets, CCing mobs, not breaking CC. The threat generating abilities do indeed have high threat, its not just a tool tip. But we can help our groups by communicating which marks get CC'd and which ones get hit first.
    You are right , but people today are in rush and they don't like marking mobs and cc'ing .. etc. They just want to face roll the instance in 15 min. The problem is that these kind of people are unfortunately a majority now. So Vanilla way of playing MMO's no longer suitable now ..

  4. #4
    Telaran Sangriel's Avatar
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    Then they will die alot. This game actually makes CC a viable thing again. Also marking targets in order for kills allows you as a tank to constantly change targets to help you maintain aggro. If you do not CC the casters in some situations your healer is goin to be toast before you know it. If you are the tank take control mark targets and roll. Being a Tank is a leadership role so be a leader.

  5. #5
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sangriel View Post
    Being a Tank is a leadership role so be a leader.
    So true. Unless you're in a team with RL friends or guild mates, ask to be party leader so you can mark mobs, and be nice about it. Lead by example and not by threatening/whining (not saying that is what you do).

    Being able to mark targets makes a world of difference, and playing as a Reaver (main), Paladin (placing points only when Reaver is "maxed) and Void Knight combo, I've not had much problems with aggro, and most of the aggro I generate is from DoT's. The only thing I've noticed is that it's important for me to get the DoT's on (2 of 3 are ranged, with ability to trigger AoE). Being lvl 22, I even held the aggro with a lvl 30 rogue DPS present.

    Taking back aggro when someone is already attacking a mob with this build is slightly more difficult, as it can take up to 2-4 GCD rotations if your party members out lvl you. But that's where being party leader and marking mobs come into play. Make it clear before you start that everyone focuses targets 1-x, starting at 1 and working your way up. The CC'er will always CC the highest numbered mob, and it should be a breeze. Pay attention to if the CC is instant cast or channeled, and if it's channeled, try and predict aproximately when the CC will go off and start pulling right before he CC's the mob. In my case it's even more important to get my 2 ranged DoT's off before the CC hits, and being the leader helps with that.

    I've found from running with the guild that a good CC can make or break an encounter, and that the CC can sometimes even innitiate a fight, while you pick up the mobs as they start running.

    Worst case scenario? Keep your single target/AoE taunt and/or fear abilities ready, and be ready to use a health pot so the healer can get those squishies that was targeted back up to full health.

    Edit: For trash AoE pulls, you can easily just aggro as many as you can, while others deal with the rest. Your healers should have no problems keeping everyone up while the mobs are killed.
    Last edited by Korialstrasz; 02-28-2011 at 05:18 AM.

  6. #6
    Prophet of Telara Banthaz's Avatar
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    You can easily maintain aggro in this game.

    There are an absolute BUNCH of AoE taunting abilities.

    I run with a combination of the Reaver's Plague Bringer and Sinister Intent specced (which means everything In AoE that I throw soul sickness + necrotic wounds at STAYS on me), combined with Aggressive Guardian from the Pally tree.

    With just those you should never lose aggro. In the case of unexpected adds, mobs going into the world geometry and popping out unexpectedly, etc., you can always use stuff like Judgment, Airburst, Ragestorm, etc.

  7. #7
    RIFT Guide Writer Kruunch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by auset View Post
    Hi,

    I have been tanking WoW for long time , without issues as it matches my play style needs , specially the aggro control , I get a message of change of target , and even when using addon like Tidy Plates , the plate on the mob changes (in size or color).

    I am having little issues in RIFT with aggro control , as I can't react quick to mobs that attack melee party members , or casters attacking any of my party members. I know Tanks should not loose aggro in first place , I know dps should attack my target , but things happen and that is why we have the Taunt abilities.

    I need your help , how do you manage your aggro control ? I have problems adjusting to RIFT in this regards , otherwise , I Love RIFT instances so far ..

    Thank you

    Please ignore spelling error on the subject
    You will need to be a little more on your toes then you were in WoW. Agro is a bit more slippery (due to classes that can do damage and heal at the same time) and you don't have all of the neat little addons that make WoW tanking so easy currently.

    I use a Paladin as my main soul for tanking. It has two AOE taunt type of abilities (on cool downs) very early in Sweeping Strikes and Judgement.

    If I am pulling a pack of mobs, I will use Judgement right off (grabs all agro across 10 mobs with a fairly large radius). Once they are all packed up, I use Sweeping Strikes as it comes off cool down and switch between the mobs to maintain agro. I save my direct taunt for when something peels off on to one of my healers/casters. It's important when doing multiples (especially if you don't have CC) to have a "main assist" person the others in the group will assist on. I generally will use a reliable DPS type as the main assist in my groups. With good CC, you (as the tank) can be the main assist.

    No real trick to this other than it is much easier now to find Warriors who can't actually tank (much easier to misbuild in this game from a tanking perspective).

    Hope that helped.
    Last edited by Kruunch; 02-28-2011 at 06:56 AM.

  8. #8
    Soulwalker
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    You can aggro, root, stun, slow down, fear (all single and multi target) - just use your tools wisely.
    Are you tanking one or several mobs? With several try to arrange them that way that you can hit all of them (or most of them) with your skills (ie. in front of you) (that also depends on skill). Who the group is hitting? - I assume it is your target. If they hit what they want - they need to be told to hit tanks' target. Sometimes 'crazy dps' unleashes what he has without any concern to tank aggroing abilities (especially if they are 2-3 levels higher and/or with better than average gear) - they need to be told to slow down...
    If you have beastmaster soul, use the pet to 'distract' one of the targets. It is especially usefull at initial pull of many mobs, where even one or two makes the difference (around lvl 30 pet has around 1k HP). AoE skills I use almost only at start for initial aggro, and than entire group is hitting my target - than only 'crazy dps' can cause problems...
    If you already lost aggro - group should know that they should run TO you, and NOT away from you! I know it is against the instinct - but this is they way. And when they lead mob back in front of you you can aggro it back (I assume you have few more mobs on your back...). Group members should know that when they take aggro (and can't deal with it themselfs), they should stop hitting (hitting=agrroing) and lead the mob to tank to take aggro back... You should pay attention to your group HP bars, predict and react accordingly...
    Manage your energy wisely, you are not dps. If any, keep debufs on your targets...
    Tank role depends on healer, so it helps if healer knows what he is doing... if necessary educate him... Btw, it is good experience to play on an alt as a healer.

  9. #9
    Telaran Vexing Vision's Avatar
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    When I was playing City of Heroes, I played a Kinetic user. Kinetics have one healing spell, which targets a monster and heals everyone around this monster.

    At one point, I was the only healer in a 10-hero-group. In CoH, fights don't happen on one spot, but everyone is running around and jumping and being blown all over the place.

    Since that memorable fight, I have perfect "control"-vision. I see, as a tank, which of my groupmembers gets attacked. I see which of the monsters loses aggro and runs towards the healer.

    I love that RIFT challenges me enough to watch out for this, unlike other games where I just have to spam AoE taunts.
    The Shards of Argent
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  10. #10
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by auset View Post
    You are right , but people today are in rush and they don't like marking mobs and cc'ing .. etc. They just want to face roll the instance in 15 min. The problem is that these kind of people are unfortunately a majority now. So Vanilla way of playing MMO's no longer suitable now ..
    This, many of the people you play with p[robably look at the instances that way. I was pally tank in wow and i can say that cata heroics were well lame, at pre-raid gear levels my healer and i would just aoe aggro groups of mobs and burn them down, no cc needed. This certainly isnt the case here especially with the big disparities in class make-up. I'm glad as a tank here i actually have to watch thing and pay attention instead of just clicking tauntmaster to pull aggro off a target i cannot even see.
    With multiple mob pulls and many casters it is more difficult to control aggro, i am main warlord tank/pally atm and i have a detaunt for party members but this game will not let you cast unless you are facing them so i try to establish threat early, distance myself from the group and turn the mobs away. This leaves me facing the group and anyone whom i may have to taunt off of.
    Also tell you dps to slow down a little, when they pull off of you, then take damage aggro very quickly goes to the healer.
    my two cents..
    p.s. no time for edit spellcheck have fun!

  11. #11
    Shadowlander
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    Spec Reaver. Enjoy AoE tanking down every instance in the game.

  12. #12
    Champion Carolius's Avatar
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    Your class and spec??? I'm sure we can all toss around ideas, but specifics will net you specific answers.
    I, for instance, end up tanking a lot on my justicar. I can give a decent amount of advice there. I've tanked a great deal in many games, so some basic advice is as follows.

    1.) Pick up the mobs as they come in. Dps shouldn't be pulling anything until you have them all on you. In my groups, I tend to have a mage "squirrel pull" by ccing the baddest single mob in the pull or one of the ranged ones that will not come in.

    2. After I get them all, I turn them till I'm facing the group. Old habit that works nicely. Some mobs in other games used to toss out "cleaves" which hit in cones from where they were facing. when one turns to face a dps or healer, pop him. You have certain skills that MAKE the mob hit you for a set period of time.

  13. #13
    Rift Disciple strength's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by offbeatpally View Post
    Spec Reaver. Enjoy AoE tanking down every instance in the game.
    correct, reaver + paladin = pretty damn good tanking soul choices

    Every new tank should be going into pali first and getting 7 ponts in reaver once you have your pali taunt to get the regen/aoe attacks etc.

    that's just my opinion, but I think it's a pretty valid one

  14. #14
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by auset View Post
    Hi,

    I have been tanking WoW for long time , without issues as it matches my play style needs , specially the aggro control , I get a message of change of target , and even when using addon like Tidy Plates , the plate on the mob changes (in size or color).

    I am having little issues in RIFT with aggro control , as I can't react quick to mobs that attack melee party members , or casters attacking any of my party members. I know Tanks should not loose aggro in first place , I know dps should attack my target , but things happen and that is why we have the Taunt abilities.

    I need your help , how do you manage your aggro control ? I have problems adjusting to RIFT in this regards , otherwise , I Love RIFT instances so far ..

    Thank you

    Please ignore spelling error on the subject
    wow kids ... cant play a single game without a trillion addons...

  15. #15
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butchertron View Post
    wow kids ... cant play a single game without a trillion addons...
    When the default UI is lacking addons are there to pick up the slack. If you don't want to use them, don't.

    The Default UI is pretty terrible in this game for tanking or healing. You cant use the raid frames in a 5 man party and you can't tell which mobs people are attacking without constantly tab targeting. Addons are a good thing.

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