When BOS boss nerf?

[Harumph]

There's a few changes I'd like to see instead of just straight damage/hp reductions.


Azranel:

Get rid of the tank swap mechanic. It's boring. Tanking this fight overall is boring. So let only one person be bored, and groups can bring another dps.


Slow down the missiles a bit for the run out mechanics. Doesn't need a drastic change, just a nudge. If your spec doesn't let you take the runspeed mastery, oftentimes you can't actually outrun the missiles.



Isiel:


Do something about Cannon Blast - lower the damage, or maybe give it a cast time. Dying to a hard hitting ability that has no warning is not a lot of fun.


Do something with the mines - a simple change is to lower their damage or reduce the number spawned. A more interesting change would be to make them killable, or at least CC-able.



Titan X:


Make the range-increasing buff last way longer, so more people can actually play melee specs if they want to for this fight.


Have the add phases with exploding ghosts end faster when the rest of the enemies are dead

[Skiye]

There's a few changes I'd like to see instead of just straight damage/hp reductions.


Azranel:

Get rid of the tank swap mechanic. It's boring. Tanking this fight overall is boring. So let only one person be bored, and groups can bring another dps.


Slow down the missiles a bit for the run out mechanics. Doesn't need a drastic change, just a nudge. If your spec doesn't let you take the runspeed mastery, oftentimes you can't actually outrun the missiles.



Isiel:


Do something about Cannon Blast - lower the damage, or maybe give it a cast time. Dying to a hard hitting ability that has no warning is not a lot of fun.


Do something with the mines - a simple change is to lower their damage or reduce the number spawned. A more interesting change would be to make them killable, or at least CC-able.



Titan X:


Make the range-increasing buff last way longer, so more people can actually play melee specs if they want to for this fight.


Have the add phases with exploding ghosts end faster when the rest of the enemies are dead

Azranel- No changes really needed.

Isiel- Needs a 10% or so health nerf. The mine RNG has always been a huge annoyance but not insurmountable. Perhaps a reduction in total number of mines, as well as making it so they don't all spawn on the same location would be a decent change. (I've had 3+ spawn directly on top of me before...).

If your tanks are getting killed by Canon blast then they aren't swapping correctly.

Titan-X: Totally agree about waiting on the ghosts to spawn. That needs to happen quicker when the rest of the wave is cleared, or just stop spawning and start the next wave at that point.

[Ishimui]

Azranel:

Get rid of the tank swap mechanic. It's boring. Tanking this fight overall is boring. So let only one person be bored, and groups can bring another dps.

Slow down the missiles a bit for the run out mechanics. Doesn't need a drastic change, just a nudge. If your spec doesn't let you take the run speed mastery, oftentimes you can't actually outrun the missiles.

Getting rid of one of the only 2 things the tank has to pay attention to? No thanks.

This is is not accurate. I've played in specs with no added run speed, no insoles, and no tactbard for Anthem of Competence, it's still quite possible to fully avoid the missile storm. Paying close attention to if you are targeted and get the debuff and then moving out quickly is all that's required for this mechanic. You do not need more run speed, teleports, or any of that jazz.
**I would like to note that I could possibly see it being more of a problem for those with higher latency, but at this time I don't think any changes are needed here.

Isiel:

Do something about Cannon Blast - lower the damage, or maybe give it a cast time. Dying to a hard hitting ability that has no warning is not a lot of fun.

Do something with the mines - a simple change is to lower their damage or reduce the number spawned. A more interesting change would be to make them killable, or at least CC-able.

Your Isiel changes while i can agree with, really depend on what method is used for tanking the boss in the second phase of the fight. If one tank is holding them both then yes the rng factor of if the tanks die or not is a bit over the top. Did the tank get squashed by multiple mines that just woudn't go away? Did those mines happen to be chilling on the tank when an Arc Slash / Cannon Blast lined up and obliterated your tank while having multiple stacks reducing their hp?
This is less of a problem when 2 tanks ping-pong the Isiel back and forth.

Personally I feel like a hp nerf to the boss is more helpful here then any other change currently, as that benefits people who use either tanking method.

Titan X:

Make the range-increasing buff last way longer, so more people can actually play melee specs if they want to for this fight.

Have the add phases with exploding ghosts end faster when the rest of the enemies are dead

I don't agree with the need to extend the ranged module buff. I think these are fine as is. The bigger problem with them from what I've seen in guild runs and pugs alike, some people are to lazy to not just hit them with whatever is in there spam macros. Find your weakest non-DoT ability tag them with that ONCE and they last a lot longer. Personally I would say if they are changed to make it so they don't spawn anywhere near the middle so passive cleave has zero chance of melting any of them.

Ghosts are annoying at best, these phases should end a lot closer to when all the killable adds from these phases are all dead. That I agree with you on.

[Onebutton]

There's a few changes I'd like to see instead of just straight damage/hp reductions.

Azranel:

Get rid of the tank swap mechanic. It's boring. Tanking this fight overall is boring. So let only one person be bored, and groups can bring another dps.

Slow down the missiles a bit for the run out mechanics. Doesn't need a drastic change, just a nudge. If your spec doesn't let you take the runspeed mastery, oftentimes you can't actually outrun the missiles.

Isiel:

Do something about Cannon Blast - lower the damage, or maybe give it a cast time. Dying to a hard hitting ability that has no warning is not a lot of fun.

Do something with the mines - a simple change is to lower their damage or reduce the number spawned. A more interesting change would be to make them killable, or at least CC-able.

Titan X:

Make the range-increasing buff last way longer, so more people can actually play melee specs if they want to for this fight.

Have the add phases with exploding ghosts end faster when the rest of the enemies are dead

I pretty much like almost everything you said.. I think these changes would be good across the board. Well thought out. the one thing i might add/change would be to make the <Boxes> I forget their name lol (modules) have more health. They seem to die even with using a low level skill to tap them.

[sancin]

MM doesn't loose any ST since most of its damage passively cleaves anyway. Planar variation + hellfire blades and razorbeast will hit ridiculously hard. Hellfire/razorbeast + crossfire + chain destruction will destroy the adds in the first phase of commander. Having to constantly hold Dark Descent and have emptiness stacks for 2nd phase in 61 NB takes a hit to your dps so even that part of it is easier in NB.

I have someone in my guild that used to solo the adds and we just had everyone else got ST. He's on hiatus though :T

10% of your St DPS is quite a bit when the fight is basically a ST dps check.

Also you lose less dps on the second phase to shielding mechanics as a nb than a mm. With 61nb you trigger DD even if the shield is up and just toss out a couple of extra builders (don't let emptiness drop or spike) then once the shield drops go into the spam finishers sequence. DD is a buff and stays up long enough that even if you pop it at the beginning of her shielding you still get off all your finishers once the shield drops.You don't delay DD at all and you only lose out on 1 set of builder/ finishers (which is on the trough of your static dps cycle) during the shield phase that are would be lost anyway. With mm you either delay rfs, which is a dps loss, or you are lucky and rfs is not up and you lose that normal builder/finisher rotation which is a higher percent of mm dps than the corresponding set in 61NB.

Of course if you guild doesn't need that extra st dps nb does over mm then the whole thing is a moot point.

As for nerfs in bos about the only thing i could see is a slight drop in boss 2 and 3s hp to help with the slight drop in dps from the changes. Mechanics shoulnd't need a change unless they are going to consider it the full on nerf before the next raid comes out nerf.

[Xly]

+1 for BoS nerfs so we can finally clear it in under 20 minutes :P

[Maltie]

Yeah, far too many rogues were playing nb/bad. It was possible to do as well as 61NB, but you couldn't just play the 2 button variant. From my personal experience through ungodly amounts of commander wiping with lots of different rogues, none of them ever did 900k+ single target. None of them knew how to split parses so they just assumed that their cleave was their actual number.

Idk why everyone hated nb/sab, if you didn't use the noob forum macro and actually break it down you'd have done insane with that spec (it was capable of 1.3m ST dps), maybe you just had bad rogues in group NB/sab played correctly had about the same amount of buttons as 61NB and was actually quite fun to play (doing 2m parses on Isiel without Omnox is always fun)

If the new dev gets around to fixing what was broken with Sab Bombs, you might actually see Nb/sab make a comeback seeing as Frag vs Scatter was very close in ST dps (ofc Scatter would have done more ST on more targets)

And Frag bomb wasn't supposed to receive any changes, so the only dps loss Nbsab should have taken was from Scatter cleave and Ebon/Smoldering

As of right now, 61NB barely does 100k or so (at most) more than MM, but has no interrupt, nowhere near as much cleave and lacks utility. At that point here's no reason to play anything but MM until further balance changes.

Honestly the dps gap between the two is a lot smaller than that, even BD can do very close (but lol 100% melee spec), MM and NB can do virtually the same dps (more like within 30-50k of each other, including BD). Atm for rogues its NB=MM > BD >>> Everything else >>>>>>>> Shadeborn/Ranger

NB might scale better in raids, I haven't actually raided in 3 months (too bored of Bastion of Snooze)


Has anyone actually parsed Shadeborn recently? It's pretty sad.

[Skiye]

Has anyone actually parsed Shadeborn recently? It's pretty sad.

I've played with it a bit lately.

I have tried to see if I could get some decent results with HFB and shadow flurry. In theory NB and SB should be complimented trees but no dice. It's hard to accomplish anything north of 650k DPS.

[Cladari]

If a guild is trying to clear using the same old raid make-up and strats they were using before 4.5 they may run into trouble. Refusing to change and crying for nerfs isn't the answer. We were clearing in about an hour then after 4.5 we had to spend 3 weeks or so playing with roles, specs and cleaning up strats and we are one night clearing again.

We had two Rogues (now one) so weren't depending on the nb/sab spec before 4.5 so if you are loaded with 2 button rogues you have some work to do.

I assume nerfs will come, they always do and I always disagree with them. Who wants to be a big fish in a very small pond? Apparently a lot of people.

Cladari
GL - Dol Amroth

[Onebutton]

If a guild is trying to clear using the same old raid make-up and strats they were using before 4.5 they may run into trouble. Refusing to change and crying for nerfs isn't the answer. We were clearing in about an hour then after 4.5 we had to spend 3 weeks or so playing with roles, specs and cleaning up strats and we are one night clearing again.

We had two Rogues (now one) so weren't depending on the nb/sab spec before 4.5 so if you are loaded with 2 button rogues you have some work to do.

I assume nerfs will come, they always do and I always disagree with them. Who wants to be a big fish in a very small pond? Apparently a lot of people.

Cladari
GL - Dol Amroth

My questions to you would be this:
1 It looks like your guild is clearing the content based on the leaderboard, and it helps when you bring along a really, really good primalist (non guilded) for that fight. They do a lot of dps right now does your guild clear it as easily as before?

2. It seems you guys are almost hitting enrage on both boss 2 and boss 3, post nerf. Doesn't seem like an easy clear when that happens Just saying.

I think what a lot of people are saying, is that it is NOT just about the nerfs to rogues, but a big global nerf that has affected a lot of guilds. I think it is just to tweak the bosses a tad so more guilds can clear. I think that is the point here.

Most top guilds were clearing BoS in like 30 min or so, perhaps 40 min, and now, well guess it depends upon the night/guild/setup Our rogues have adapted to MM/NB and they are able to output enough dps for us to kill the bosses, but it is NOT just about rogues, and our times of killing the bosses are a lot slower (A lot) than they use to be. But adaptation and knowing the fights well helps a lot.

The nerf is real, and it is time for a nerf to the raid bosses (mostly Commander) to allow the progress guilds to have a chance. That is the point. Best of luck on Overlord drops !

[Learan]

I think what a lot of people are saying, is that it is NOT just about the nerfs to rogues, but a big global nerf that has affected a lot of guilds. I think it is just to tweak the bosses a tad so more guilds can clear. I think that is the point here.

Most top guilds were clearing BoS in like 30 min or so, perhaps 40 min, and now, well guess it depends upon the night/guild/setup Our rogues have adapted to MM/NB and they are able to output enough dps for us to kill the bosses, but it is NOT just about rogues, and our times of killing the bosses are a lot slower (A lot) than they use to be. But adaptation and knowing the fights well helps a lot.

The nerf is real, and it is time for a nerf to the raid bosses (mostly Commander) to allow the progress guilds to have a chance. That is the point. Best of luck on Overlord drops !

I mostly agree with this. The population is so low since the more geared players are afk waiting for new content. Nerfs hit all classes across the board and to active players still gearing it feels like progression again. Yes it is possible to do 30 min clears. At this point just nerf it to allow for more pug groups.

[dundare]

We tried it out and it felt like more work than it should be for ancient content. Only Rift would try and make old content harder or make a global nerf to dps in the name of balance and not adjust the mobs.

Either way, pretty much everyone on my friends list is gone from Rift and I have been here since the beginning. My guild which had 30+ online at night in June is down to about 4 active players and the reaction of the people I browbeat into coming back to start raiding. A couple were not really to into redoing specs for old content, a couple were just like why am I here, and the rest were just like all this really reminds me of is why we stopped raiding and rifting in the first place.

I logged in on prime and its dead there too, though not as dead as live.

A week or so left of patron for me and then I will peek back in when new content arrives, but I will tell you this - I dont know ANYONE who believes in Trion, the ability of the Rift team to turn this around, or that this game can be saved.

[Cladari]

My questions to you would be this:
1 It looks like your guild is clearing the content based on the leaderboard, and it helps when you bring along a really, really good primalist (non guilded) for that fight. They do a lot of dps right now does your guild clear it as easily as before?

2. It seems you guys are almost hitting enrage on both boss 2 and boss 3, post nerf. Doesn't seem like an easy clear when that happens Just saying.

I think what a lot of people are saying, is that it is NOT just about the nerfs to rogues, but a big global nerf that has affected a lot of guilds. I think it is just to tweak the bosses a tad so more guilds can clear. I think that is the point here.

Most top guilds were clearing BoS in like 30 min or so, perhaps 40 min, and now, well guess it depends upon the night/guild/setup Our rogues have adapted to MM/NB and they are able to output enough dps for us to kill the bosses, but it is NOT just about rogues, and our times of killing the bosses are a lot slower (A lot) than they use to be. But adaptation and knowing the fights well helps a lot.

The nerf is real, and it is time for a nerf to the raid bosses (mostly Commander) to allow the progress guilds to have a chance. That is the point. Best of luck on Overlord drops !

We were never a top guild but we always cleared current content. We were clearing BoS in about an hour pre 4.5 and now we are pretty close to enrage post 4.5 I expect that to get better as we go along. We do clear in one night post 4.5

The Primalist is an out of guild alt he keeps in Lemme Smash. His Cleric is in guild so it's not really "out of guild". We do take the cleric sometimes.

My whole point was that if Dol Amroth can work to clear post 4.5 there is no reason anyone who was clearing can't do so again. I realize my dislike of nerfs is not popular and I appreciate the reasoned and polite reply. We just disagree and that's what makes the world go around.

[Linolea]

All the people saying there isn't a problem, we can still clear BoS adequately are all T2-upgraded geared to the teeth. Imagine doing it fresh out of T1 as originally intended.

/micdrop

[Onebutton]

We were never a top guild but we always cleared current content. We were clearing BoS in about an hour pre 4.5 and now we are pretty close to enrage post 4.5 I expect that to get better as we go along. We do clear in one night post 4.5

The Primalist is an out of guild alt he keeps in Lemme Smash. His Cleric is in guild so it's not really "out of guild". We do take the cleric sometimes.

My whole point was that if Dol Amroth can work to clear post 4.5 there is no reason anyone who was clearing can't do so again. I realize my dislike of nerfs is not popular and I appreciate the reasoned and polite reply. We just disagree and that's what makes the world go around.

Actually this was a well though out reply back to my reply. I appreciate it too :P The whole idea really is to allow more guilds to clear 3/3 and right now it is a lot harder work than before. Yes, guilds are adapting and using new specs like MM or 61NB, however the nerf can be felt.

In our guild (Grayskull) I remember several of us getting to phase 2 on Commander (with no adds alive) in under 2 min easily, and now it is close to 2 min 30 sec, that is a fairly big change. Our rogues are full T2 geared as well, only a couple of overlord pieces missing, so it is a big hit imo. When we go in on our ALT runs now, if we do not have 10 guildies, we will not clear 3/3 anymore, whereas before we could pug 2/3 people and clear it.

The point of this post is that, when our ALT group when in, we were able to help 2 pugs get a 3/3 clear and get gear. This was a good thing!!!! indeed. Helped everyone out. So, now, if we do not have 9/10 or 10/10 guildies, we will most likely not get a full clear with our alts, and even when we kill the bosses, we are close to enrage lol. So yea, we can really feel it.

I know you don't like nerfs, however with this major of an impact on a dps loss, I think it is time. I would not being saying this if we weren't nerfed :P I also like to use the analogy that if we are lagging, why can't the damn boss be lagging too - :P