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Thread: Question(s) about commander

  1. #1
    Plane Walker
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    Default Question(s) about commander

    We seem to be consistently losing tanks in phase 2 and 3. We have 2 warrior tanks who are strongly geared and are using a top notch puri and have tried a warrior healer and a FK. We have run a fk chon, a cloro chon, and even the hybrid rogue spec w high ae dps in various configurations. We easily meet the DPS check. We have killed it 3 times, but feels like it takes us all week to line up the right pull to get the kill.

    We have tried the p2p method and the tank in place method for the final phase.

    Could folks share their healing configs and any tips for p2 and p3 when it comes to tanking and healing it? We cant help but think we are missing something especially in p3.
    Sutra@faeblight
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  2. #2
    RIFT Guide Writer Maltie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dundare View Post
    We seem to be consistently losing tanks in phase 2 and 3. We have 2 warrior tanks who are strongly geared and are using a top notch puri and have tried a warrior healer and a FK. We have run a fk chon, a cloro chon, and even the hybrid rogue spec w high ae dps in various configurations. We easily meet the DPS check. We have killed it 3 times, but feels like it takes us all week to line up the right pull to get the kill.

    We have tried the p2p method and the tank in place method for the final phase.

    Could folks share their healing configs and any tips for p2 and p3 when it comes to tanking and healing it? We cant help but think we are missing something especially in p3.
    Have you tried using a 61 Phys instead? Life Insurance matches up with the Voltaics perfectly
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  3. #3
    Plane Walker
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    We have tried it, but it didnt change much during the mine phase.
    Sutra@faeblight
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  4. #4
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    Default Some solutions.

    Quote Originally Posted by dundare View Post
    We have tried it, but it didnt change much during the mine phase.

    There is one thing you should know and are three easy things you can try.

    Voltaic dmg doesn't get reduced by cooldown of tank himself. I don't know it's intended or not but anyway. I mean, if commander cast voltaic on your main tank, his cooldown dosen't work at all against voltaic. No dmg reduction. No shileding himself. Only kind of cooldown like defer death or HP boost works for himself.

    So, against voltaitc, Tank should call "external cooldown or shiled" from healers or OT if he doesn't have HP BOOST or DD. Or voltaic's natural 600k dmg will hit the tank whose hp is reduced by debuff. This is the reason why tank dies while even he screaming "I absolutely used my cooldown!"


    Here is three solutions.


    1. Check healer's rotation and set cooldowns usage order.

    Puri, warchanter, fk are enough for saving tank if they shield correctly.

    Puri has Flame of life and Legendary Battle rez which is same as defer death.

    Warchanter has phalanx.

    FK has 1minute channeling Defer death.

    OT's intercept or dmg reduction (honestly, I dont know much about war tank).

    + Warrior tank's HP boost. Enough against Voltaic.

    So, what you need to is letting tank use his "dmg reduction or shiled cooldown" against mines when he is with 1~2stacks of debuff and call external cooldown against voltaic.


    Honestly, this could work if your healers are doing properly.



    2. Tank swap.

    You might face the moment when tank is very dangerous but nothing is ready for him. For this moment, Let OT uses his cooldowns and tank both machine and commander until maintank's cooldown come back.

    At this moment, of course OT should rush into them and taunt. Not taunt from the group stacking point.


    3. Ping pong commander.

    Actually, I recommend this the most. When your stronger tank tanks both, OT is really useless. So, just make both tank tank each one - machine and commander.

    And machine tank taunts the commander when she gets the shield.

    This needs some practice for both tanks, but much more stable and if you set the proper place, you can use melee dps that means much more dps than just range.


    Anyway. maybe the secret of Volatic which ignores tank's cooldown is the reason makes your group unstable. Try one of above 3. Maybe one of it will work for you.
    Last edited by MusclPig; 01-19-2018 at 04:20 AM.
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  5. #5
    King of Slackers
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    It's doable with proper heal cd management, but using 15% necro or warlord link makes it much easier.
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  6. #6
    Soulwalker
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    This really helps. We consistently get to 14-15% but then get wrecked by the mines. Is there a mechanic the tanks use for this? We have watched all the videos, tried many positions, so far no joy. Thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tmaris View Post
    This really helps. We consistently get to 14-15% but then get wrecked by the mines. Is there a mechanic the tanks use for this? We have watched all the videos, tried many positions, so far no joy. Thanks!

    If a tank dies by mines without any hp-reducing debuff, it's totally healer's fault. And only improvements of healers can solve it.

    If not that case, and as long as you stick one-tank, there is one way.

    Use tank's self cooldown against mine only, especially when he gets 2~3 stacks of debuffs.

    And call healer's or OT's cooldown against voltaic.


    One additional. forgot saying about Nechro or warlord dmg link. What Keepro wrote. It's really helpful.
    Last edited by MusclPig; 01-21-2018 at 01:18 AM.
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  8. #8
    Xly
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    We use Chantion, Phystact and Necrochloro (61 Necro for the link, 11 chloro for synth, 4 ele).

    Synth swap in P1 until Isiel goes active, then synth on Isiel tank til robo comes back, synth on robo tank til he dies to mines, synth on Isiel tank -> boss dead ;-) At least it works for us.

    When we still had 2 mages, the other one would run an 61-archo-15-frostkeeper for 6% more health on the tanks.

  9. #9
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    ***
    If a tank dies by mines without any hp-reducing debuff, it's totally healer's fault. And only improvements of healers can solve it.
    ***

    I am sure your healer love you when you make such statements . The problem is, that the fight depends to much on luck. Even when you play it perfectly you tank can die simple because 3-4 mines tick the same moment. The debuff is not that a big problem Tanks don't die because the debuffs in most case. They die because mines stack. It not Play that a big role if the tank has 10 or 20% less live. This is less then one mine will take away when it explode. So 3 mines which explode at 100% tanklive is worser then 2 mines which explode when the tank is at 80% live. This is also the reason why the fight goes harder as longer it goes. More and more mines show up and the risk that more hit the tank at the same moment get higher and higher. The best tip i can give you is, that the 2. healer not use his cooldown for the big hit and only for mines. This can give you the 1 Minute you need to survive longer to drop him. When the first tank dies at 10/15% you should be able to drop the Boss.

    Arbosch Bloodforge
    Last edited by arbosch; 01-31-2018 at 08:11 AM.

  10. #10
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    Default Well. sorry I totally can't agree with you.

    Quote Originally Posted by arbosch View Post
    ***
    If a tank dies by mines without any hp-reducing debuff, it's totally healer's fault. And only improvements of healers can solve it.
    ***

    I am sure your healer love you when you make such statements . The problem is, that the fight depends to much on luck. Even when you play it perfectly you tank can die simple because 3-4 mines tick the same moment. The debuff is not that a big problem Tanks don't die because the debuffs in most case. They die because mines stack. It not Play that a big role if the tank has 10 or 20% less live. This is less then one mine will take away when it explode. So 3 mines which explode at 100% tanklive is worser then 2 mines which explode when the tank is at 80% live. This is also the reason why the fight goes harder as longer it goes. More and more mines show up and the risk that more hit the tank at the same moment get higher and higher. The best tip i can give you is, that the 2. healer not use his cooldown for the big hit and only for mines. This can give you the 1 Minute you need to survive longer to drop him. When the first tank dies at 10/15% you should be able to drop the Boss.

    Arbosch Bloodforge

    1. Against "The problem is on luck".
    Well... We have considered about how to be less dependent on luck for long time and two tanks tactic is the result of it. Using two tanks doesn't depend on luck that much. But we're talking about one-tank tactic, so let's cover it.


    2. Against "The debuff is not that a big problem."
    The debuff is big enough. If your tank is well geared, maybe has 720~800k hp with tank trinket proceed. At this moment, 1 stack of debuff reduce 10% max hp. so maximum 30%. it's about 210k~240k. Almost 1 machine's hit or 1 mine. How can you say it's not big while you're saying this fight is on luck. lol. With debuff, Tank will die by 3 mines while he could survive from 4 mines without debuff.

    3. Against "the number that explode tanks."
    I am very curious about what healers you're using. Don't you use any shielding healers? It doesnt matter what kind of them, but you must use shield healers. And if you use more than 2 shielding healers, it must not happen to kill tank in 3 mines.


    4. Against "your best tip"
    Thank you for tips. but I'm sorry to say that your tip is wrong. If you ever have analyzed the death log and dmg taken log of tank in prancing turtle, you can't say that. As I say above, Voltaic never gets affected by Tank's self cooldown. Its dmg is reduced by only external shields and dmg reduction. Not by tank's own cooldown. And without any external help, tank 100% die by voltaic with 3stacks of debuff. That's the reason you need to use your healer's cooldown on voltaic.

    Here is my suggestion again.

    Tank should use his cooldown only against debuff and many mines - more than 2. Not against voltaic because it's not handled by tank himself.

    Healer's cooldown must be used when commander casts voltaic.

    And if two healers who let tank die in 3 or 4 mines without any debuff, First. check your tank's cooldown timing. Second, it's healers's fault totally. It's same as a dps who pulls 600k in BOS. Unless you must carry him, just replace him or encourage him to get better.
    Last edited by MusclPig; 01-31-2018 at 05:45 PM.
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  11. #11
    Plane Walker
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    We ended up solving it by using a phys along with the puri as st heals, adding a necro for the link and heals, and keeping a fk chon. It made it a lot easier. Two weeks in a row now it has been pretty straightforward.
    Sutra@faeblight
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  12. #12
    Telaran Biscuitsyum's Avatar
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    puri, phys, necro, AND fkchon? that seems way overkill on st heals, but if you're killing him I guess thats all that matters. We use Puri, warchanter, phystact, chlorochon. We struggled a bit for a few weeks, but once myself and the puri got used to healing it, it wasn't to bad. Now they added a necro and its pretty easy.
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  13. #13
    Plane Walker Poshy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biscuitsyum View Post
    puri, phys, necro, AND fkchon? that seems way overkill on st heals, but if you're killing him I guess thats all that matters. We use Puri, warchanter, phystact, chlorochon. We struggled a bit for a few weeks, but once myself and the puri got used to healing it, it wasn't to bad. Now they added a necro and its pretty easy.
    I think we are using a tactbard not a phystact. Mainly for bard buffs and the aoe debuff.
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  14. #14
    Sword of Telara
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    I think 2 warchanter for tank heal and 1 chlorochon for group heal is the best possible setup. The warchanters can also provide a 15 % damage reduce link if the tanks need it. A damage oracel can replace the bard.

  15. #15
    Telaran
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    We only use 1 warchanter and 1 raid healer, no chlorochon. Very doable and allows us to get very fast kills which means much less time on the last phase dying to unfortunate mine placements.
    Wynford@Greybriar (Cleric) - Martyrdom@Greybriar (Primalist) - Salmoneus@Greybriar (Mage)

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