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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Absorb Shielding Changes

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vladd View Post
    Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe.

    Read: We've been smoke testing the build and if it passes will be pre-fetched and updated to PTS.
    Neat thanks. Will there be anything else cool in the patch?
    Quote Originally Posted by Klutch817 View Post
    "I don't like what you're saying, so I'mma get triggered and shame you somehow." ~RIFT Forums, 2016

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vladd View Post
    Content up to CoA received drastic reductions a few months ago so we do not need to touch much of that again. We will be reducing health and damage of MoM encounters by 10% and doing the same for CoA but at a 30% reduction.
    So... On Herecius, can we not have the mushrooms(not the shroomaggeddon mushrooms) get nerfed. They don't have a lot of health as it is, so taking 30% off of those will probably cause issues.

  3.   This is the last Rift Team post in this thread.   #18
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    PTS was updated late yesterday with the changes if you guys want to go test it out.
    Lead Designer - RIFT


  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parkhyeyeon View Post
    So... On Herecius, can we not have the mushrooms(not the shroomaggeddon mushrooms) get nerfed. They don't have a lot of health as it is, so taking 30% off of those will probably cause issues.
    Yes Vladd I see a problem there as a couple hits always drops them

  5. #20
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    I did some calculations and mitigation of bleed-through at 3x, 4x shield was really high. Because it increased exponentially with the number of shields stacked.


    The new change to the calculation looks like a good and reasonable one.




    With the old calculation the mitigation factor of bleed through used to be 6,66x for 2 shields, 44,3x for 3 shields, 295x for 4 shields etc. each consecutive shield meant 6,66x more mitigation that the previous one and this made bleed-through damage not noticeable at all.


    Maybe each stack of shield from Warchanter - We Stand United ability counted?
    Last edited by Sahtiaro; 10-04-2016 at 12:11 PM.
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  6. #21
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    This is rather confusing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vladd View Post
    Basically, we made a change awhile back where almost all absorb shields now had a minimum of 15% bleed through so they never fully protected the character. This exposed how the game calculates absorb damage in that if there are multiple shields the damage is mitigated by each and every one. So in the case of a character having 3 shields on them, each at 15% damage bleed, the first one would let 15% through. The second would let 15% of the previous 15% through and so on. Thus the final hit would be 0.3375% of the initial hit.

    Now, the calculation will do the following:

    1) If there is a 100% absorb shield, that shield will take damage first.
    2) Damage that is bled through a shield can no longer be mitigated by other shield effects.
    So the goal of this change is clear: Damage that was not absorbed by the first shield should hit the character and not be further absorbed by the following shields. Seems to be a good change!

    But the example is no really fitting and the values are irritating.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vladd View Post
    Example:

    A character has 100k HP. They have a 20k 100% absorb shield, a 15k 85% absorb shield, and a 10k 85% absorb shield on them.

    The character has 100k points of damage applied to them post mitigation.

    The 20k 100% absorb shield is calculated first and 80k damage is passed along to the next shield. The 15k 85% absorb takes off another 15k while allowing 2.25k through for a reduction of 17.25k to the 30k total. This 2.25k cannot be mitigated further and will hit the character. The remaining 62.75k is applied to the last shield. 10k is mitigated and 1.5k bleeds through. Just as before, this 1.5k cannot be mitigated further. The final 51.25k lands on the character as there are no more shields to absorb the damage.

    Another way to think of this is that the player has two pools of absorbs on them. One is those that shield at 100% and the other at 85%. The 100% will always be calculated first so that's 20k off our 100k hit for 80k left. The remaining two shields account for 25k total shielding at 85% thus the player will take a minimum of 3.75k as the remaining 80k is reduced. Once all absorbs are accounted for, the character takes the remaining 51.25k.

    Thus, the character took 55k of the 100k hit after absorb shields.

    It's also important to note that this is a first in-first out system when it comes to determining which absorb shields get hit first. The only exception being that 100% shields, regardless of when applied, get calculated first.

    -Vladd
    The character would have taken 55k anyway because the shields sum up to 45k total and no more damage could have been absorbed anyway. More interesting would have been an example where the damage is LOWER than the shield(s). This could explain much better what happens. How much does the character get hit for and how much of the shield(s) remain?

    Also, I don't get the calculating. A 85% shield for 10k should absorb 85% of the incoming damage, right? So in that case, a 10k hit should result in a 1.5k hit on the character and 8.5 absorbed by the shield, leaving a 1.5k shield. To fully destroy the shield, a 10k/0.85 = 11.764...k hit would be needed. In this case, the shield would absorb 85% of 11.764...k, which is exactly 10k, and hit the character for the remainder of 1.764...k.

    In your example the hit of 62.75k (which is way over the shield capacity and is therefore not making any difference) goes onto the the 10k 85% shield and absorbs 10k and bleeds for 1.5k. Thus it absorbs 10k out of a 11.5k hit. (The rest of the 62.75k - 11.5k = 51.25k damage is directly applied to the character.) That means the shield absorbed 10/11.5 = 86,95...%. So it actually is NOT a 85% shield.

    This again only makes a difference if the hit is lower than a certain threshold. The results of high damage hits that break the shields nevertheless stay the same.


    One more point:
    The order of shielding could make a huge impact. I haven't done much math on that but I hope that's not gonna destroy any aspects of shielding in raids as maybe some small shields that are applied "randomly" may result in less shielding overall due to order of shielding and the combination of healing and shielding. This can be confusing now but I can't really explain it better until I do some math on it.


    Hoping for a reply!

    Best regards
    Zayu

  7. #22
    Champion of Telara Wackywoo's Avatar
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    Ok none of this is making sense to me (Stereotypical blonde)

    Are these changes a nerf to absorbs or a buff to absorbs?

    On the trash before the 3rd boss in Return to Empyrean Core, are we going to see more damage hitting the tank when absorbs are applied or less damage?

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wackywoo View Post
    Ok none of this is making sense to me (Stereotypical blonde)

    Are these changes a nerf to absorbs or a buff to absorbs?

    On the trash before the 3rd boss in Return to Empyrean Core, are we going to see more damage hitting the tank when absorbs are applied or less damage?
    You will see more damage.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trauumhaft View Post
    You will see more damage.
    Ahh ok.

  10. #25
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    ok... i don't like it after reading. Why don't u just make a summ of all shields (85%) total and apply to total dmg? That would be fair.
    Now order of the shields will be important. Most effective will be to put huge shields 1st, however, we have things like greater essences which put small shields automatically randomly, which means huge amount of dmg will be bypassed. It seems I will have to trash such essences now or it will make killing blows on me instead shield.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zayu View Post
    This is rather confusing.


    One more point:
    The order of shielding could make a huge impact. I haven't done much math on that but I hope that's not gonna destroy any aspects of shielding in raids as maybe some small shields that are applied "randomly" may result in less shielding overall due to order of shielding and the combination of healing and shielding. This can be confusing now but I can't really explain it better until I do some math on it.
    Zayu
    Yeh, my "mind test" shows same results, if essence apply random shield (small!) before any else it will be killing blow and waste of any other next big shield set by healer. So i suspect will have to remove all small shields at all.

    I think I have essence which shields 10% upto 2k or so, so 90% will bypass any further shield! Its a waste.
    So I have low hp, using tank -skill-shield(85%) but essence happens a bit faster before, and bypasses 90% - so i'm dead and visually shielded by skill..good patch.
    Last edited by alexzk; 10-05-2016 at 05:18 PM.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexzk View Post
    Yeh, my "mind test" shows same results, if essence apply random shield (small!) before any else it will be killing blow and waste of any other next big shield set by healer. So i suspect will have to remove all small shields at all.

    I think I have essence which shields 10% upto 2k or so, so 90% will bypass any further shield! Its a waste.
    So I have low hp, using tank -skill-shield(85%) but essence happens a bit faster before, and bypasses 90% - so i'm dead and visually shielded by skill..good patch.
    Hey Vladd I think we need much more clariffication here because what he said makes a lot off sense, I as a tank will get one shot with 170k hp and 400k armor in CoA by many attacks if my ffirst shield causes all damage unblocked by it to bypass my other dmg shields because I have had 4 or 5 on me and seen them drop in a single hit before

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Challengere View Post
    Hey Vladd I think we need much more clariffication here because what he said makes a lot off sense, I as a tank will get one shot with 170k hp and 400k armor in CoA by many attacks if my ffirst shield causes all damage unblocked by it to bypass my other dmg shields because I have had 4 or 5 on me and seen them drop in a single hit before
    in CoA better works avoidance builds, with huge dodges ..but yeh, that "shield priority" is so confusing. I think they forgot they had 10% shields there, if all shields was 85% and 100% only patch could work though (and still, better to use 85%s with more absorbs prior lower absorbs - which questions shields from weapons etc).
    Last edited by alexzk; 10-05-2016 at 05:40 PM.

  14. #29
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    maybe i'm missing something but the order of the shields shouldn't matter that much, unless the amount of damage is less than the amount on the total shields

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobtheskull View Post
    maybe i'm missing something but the order of the shields shouldn't matter that much, unless the amount of damage is less than the amount on the total shields
    Not shielded amount is plain bypassed, so if you have 10% shield first applied, it will bypass 90% which will ignore all next shields they say.

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