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Thread: Hardmode Hericius

  1. #1
    Shadowlander
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    Default Hardmode Hericius

    Atm a guild on Zaviel EU killed this boss 57 seconds past enrage and got shard 1st. So i was wondering if this will be revoked so someone can get a proper shard 1st?

    Censored link of leaderboards:

    http://imgur.com/5dxrWfs
    Last edited by Needhelpz; 06-21-2016 at 01:20 PM.

  2. #2
    Plane Touched WorldAdidas's Avatar
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    I messaged Ocho about this asking if this was exploited or just buged leader board. Still no reply I highly doubt that it is buged leaderboard because 57second above enrage sounds really fishy.
    Any "raid dev" or any type of dev please confirm this?
    NightmareTide :: Cleared!

    Worldadidas@Gelidra

  3. #3
    Champion Sahtiaro's Avatar
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    I really like RIFT raiding, cuz its 50% raiding and 50% drama.
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  4. #4
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    Still don´t know where the fun is in killing an Encounter only due to exploits

    <Transcendent>


  5. #5
    RIFT Guide Writer Soulshield's Avatar
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    Just logged in to check who exploited there...let`s see if they will be allowed to exploit a third time
    Prof. Akylios passenger of the Choo Choo train
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  6. #6
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    Last time a guild killed a boss so far past enrage we were told about incredible coordination and burst dps. But at least back then the boss was fixed to avoid other guilds extending enrage!

    In all seriousness though (assuming this isn't a leaderboard bug) I think this speaks to a much larger issue which has been brought up so many times it's incredible that anyone still bothers. Having unfinished content repeatedly pushed onto live is incredibly demoralizing to anyone trying to play this game at an even semi-serious level. Sure a single bug or two would slip through the cracks during PTS even if it was given proper testing time but the state the raids are being released in, and have been released in throughout all of NT have been a complete joke and has almost single handedly killed the raiding scene in Rift.

    If you are someone with a competitive mindset and who enjoys raiding it's almost impossible to take this game seriously, specifically because of how unfinished the bosses are and how ridiculously easy it is to exploit them. This is further perpetuated by the unclear and largely subjective definition of what is and isn't an exploit. Should I intentionally wipe if my feast is embodied on Azaphrentus? Am I allowed to move the tank to pick an add up on Hericious? Can I push Fionn past 15% even though the tooltip states that I shouldn't be able to? Can I use T3 healing trinkets on the crystals on Dark Genesis? Will I get punished if the bottom tank never gets aggro on Holy Genesis? What if I Rift Prison the adds on Hericious to despawn them? Will my kill get revoked then? What if I respawn on Anrak the Foul? What if I do it on Arisen Arak? What if I use a defiler beacon to soak crystals on Jinoscoth? Or what if I cancelbuff the contract buff on Sicaron? Maybe it's okay for me to stop dps at 41% on Crucia and maybe it isn't. Who knows? Have I listed enough unclear situations yet or should I keep going? I actually kinda wonder how many people are left in the game who know the answer to all of these.
    Last edited by Ordien; 06-21-2016 at 03:04 PM.
    Just here for the spreadsheets

  7. #7
    Telaran FalledAngel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulshield View Post
    Just logged in to check who exploited there...let`s see if they will be allowed to exploit a third time
    Third time? Ok, let's discuss.

    After first using of "exploit" I wrote to support next message, just for information:
    Quote Originally Posted by Fallenangel
    “After a thorough investigation of your recent kill of The Arisen Arak on May 7th, we have determined that certain bugs were abused during a sequence of the fight” – seriously thorough investigation?

    Let's start from afar and talk about interesting raids and bosses, about the perfectly working game and about the class balance. But no, I was delusional as well as you were delusional about the thoroughness of your investigation. Let's talk about bugs.

    The Mind of Madness raid is so far the most bugged raid in the whole Rift history, and I think you won't argue with that. It is almost half a year from the moment the raid had gone live but still there are bugs in every encounter, and every time we go there the players are forced to find the solutions to avoid these tricky bugs instead of mastering the ability to do boss mechanics as they are intended to work. And if there are no such solutions, they simply do continuous attempts to "roll" a successful fight when no bugs appear at all. And when I read the patch notes every week I hope not to see something changed in this raid, something "reworked" by you, because every time you fix something you break other. Instead of spending the expected attempts of bug avoiding we have to learn new and spend more time on this.

    I just want to remind you that this game, like any other, has to bring fun. There is certainly a developer-player relationship, but the recent events show other picture: the developer-betatester relationship model. Explain to me, why we are considered betatesters and have to pay you for this. For what? For the possibility of being involved in a game testing? You have already lost a large amount of top-guilds because of this way of dealing with people. Does life give you any lessons?

    Now, more close to the point: our guild never used bugs or exploits to gain boss kills, because we think that it is just not worthy to use them. We came to a problem: after some amount of attempts Shadow of C'zyth stops doing mechanics properly and begins killing the raid from behind of itself by casting Wrath of C'zyth. Every day we tried to do complete the mechanics legitimately and without using exploits. But every day after certain time the boss eventually had become bugged. We then came to decision to use this exploit to skip this broken mechanic and to continue further instead of disbanding the raid till the next day or making "soft-resets" of raid instance by doing 15-minute coffee-breaks after each failed attempt. As the experience of the past days and weeks had shown us, Shadow of C'zyth being once bugged would kill the entire raid over and over again until the "soft-reset" had been made. How do you think, what can we do in this situation?

    Here is the recorded video of our kill: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jj0LN6zTYn4

    Here is the recorded video of one of our previous attempts: http://cybergame.tv/videos/1843904-/

    9:13 - the presentation of a bug, boss kills from behind.

    17:12 - again, on 17:45 we can see the death log and the name of ability (Wrath of C’zyth) that caused a wipe. Front cleave but casted from behind.

    All subsequent tries utilized exploit using.

    Here is the whole record of the raid, the day when kill was made: http://cybergame.tv/videos/1844253-/

    23:20 - Raid wiped because of mechanic of Shadow of C’zyth, when miniboss is not even present on the battlefield. At 24:24 there is a death log, in which there is a mechanic called Crushing Void that belongs to Shadow of C’zyth, not Arisen Arak. New bug never seen before.

    46:25-48:00, 1:05:00-1:06:40 - proof of the fact that Shadow of C’zyth mechanics are perfectly mastered and practiced.

    1:28:30 - bug again, boss cleaved from behind.

    1:42:00-1:56:25 - kill, done by "exploiting".

    Speaking of bugs on this boss, we demonstrated you two bugs, but there is also one more serious. Two mechanics are not working as intended. These are Enter the Light of Draum and Enter the Shadow of the Nexus. All you have to do is to enter the shadow in the beginning of the fight just once, and that is all you need, you can forget about these abilities. Nothing serious happens after it and raid does is not wiped.

    Will you tell me that ignoring these abilities is an exploit? Honestly speaking, I don't even know how they are supposed to work. And also you can rollback every guild who’s players refused to shift between light and shadow and did not die after.

    As you can see, I gave you a testimony of the fact that we are doing the mechanics of Shadow of C’zyth perfectly, in which case exploiting is not a way for us to skip something hard, but the way to avoid your bugs. Question: is this kind of exploit considered the real exploit, or just the custom way to fix your bugs on a user level? And tell me, where is the thoroughness of your investigation? Give us back our kill and please do a thorough investigation of your staff and testers' feedback before investigating players' actions.

    P.S. One more question.

    Dear developers, you call this shame a raid? (http://cybergame.tv/videos/1845676-/)

    Piles of dead bodies, forgiving mechanics that can be simply ignored. As a result, we have more than 2 minutes before the enrage. Tell us, how can we wipe here?

    And we can see on this video the same thing I was talking about: by fixing one thing you break other. You diminished boss HP, but broke the whole mechanic: 3 casts of Divide and Conquer, then ONE row of bubbles and then again 3 casts of Divide and Conquer instead of second row of bubbles.
    And second message
    Quote Originally Posted by Fallenangel
    Now, more close to described bug: there is our raid at friday 05/13/2016 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBViLMGsmJI). We found another solution for bug: if raid will stand in front right corner and tank will stand in back left corner then bug will appear, but if swap position of tank and raid then bug doesn't show up and everything will be fine. Unfortunately we start recording our raid not from begining, but we made one attempt of our usual tactics to show you that bug still exists and can be easily repeated. You can see this bug on 49:40, and solution on 24:08, 1:01:40, etc.

    During our raid in friday I tried to invite devs or GMs to our raid to show this bug and a way to reproduce it, but no one came. My live-chat log stored in my request from my personal account.

    So, we can't assume that this bug occurs only in a certain position of raid and haven't tried to find other positions for raid. And our previous solution with exploit using I still consider legitimate.

    Finally our second kill without using exploit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rbd9ulJJCtM
    Now tell me your opinion: this use of exploit is really exploit or bug fix? After this I tried to invite devs to our raid to show them way how is possible to reproduce bug which we decided to solve with "expoit", but nobody came and still no feedback, question still unanswered.

    And now about Hericius: we not used any exploits, during fight we fully performed all of mechanics, we are not running from the boss, killed all adds (3*2), jumped over all circle waves, standing in a middle of a room, healed all aoe-damage and saw Enrage on 7 mins. And after enrage timer mechanics still going on and we loose 6 people after enrage before kill boss. And btw this is was a third day of exploration and only first time when we reached a last phase, ok, we saw enrage, boss killed only half-raid, so, what we must to do? If boss not kill you by enrage kill yourself at the wall? Imho if boss not killed you on enrage with one-shot this means that is it soft-enrage, isn't it? Currently I'm really don't know what we doing wrong, that enrage on Hericius not wiped us. Unfortunately we not recorded this fight to prove our purity of thoughts, but I hope that team will conduct a thorough investigation of our kill.

  8. #8
    Fia
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    Quote Originally Posted by WorldAdidas View Post
    I messaged Ocho about this asking if this was exploited or just buged leader board. Still no reply I highly doubt that it is buged leaderboard because 57second above enrage sounds really fishy.
    Any "raid dev" or any type of dev please confirm this?
    Didn't Arm Dearg stream their kill? But whatever, FallenAngel gave a full record of their fights, so in this case (unlike with certain other guilds), I am inclined to believe him.

    Apart from that, I think perma bans are a bit too harsh, simply because it takes time to fix the bugs in the encounters. Instead, just invalidate the kill and take away the looted items. That way no harm is done.
    Last edited by Fia; 06-21-2016 at 04:31 PM.
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  9. #9
    King of Slackers
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    Still missing dev post... are only kills < 7 minutes legit or is 7:11 is ok aswell but 7:15 is not

    inb4 every guild needs to stream and/or upload combat log
    Last edited by keepor; 06-21-2016 at 04:43 PM.
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  10. #10
    Telaran FalledAngel's Avatar
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    Wink

    And I don't know who author of these words but it's true
    You can't remove buff by right clicking - it's an exploit.
    You can't stay in range to share your guard - it's an exploit.
    You can't use your pet - it can be exploit.
    Safe spots are exploits!
    Think how to use broken reactive abilities - you don't wanna use exploits, don't you?
    Cleave throuth mechanic cast? Try to dodge that!
    One body attracts everyone including the tank, second cleaves the raid? Try to dodge that!
    Phase change without mechanics change? Shut up and try again.
    Random oneshots? Shut up and try again.

  11. #11
    Ascendant Gilgad's Avatar
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    Lol they won't get banned, don't be silly.

  12. #12
    Telaran Simple Things's Avatar
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    I'd prefer to see the bugs fixed, content held back till polished, proper testers and if something still slips to live, fair treatment to those who have to deal with broken content.

    But apparently having spent more than a paycheck of most trion employees as single person doesn't entitle me to ask for a polished game that is actually fun to play.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elayara View Post
    I really would like to answer to that, but no matter how hard I try, I find no way to do that without tripping over some of the red lines that are in place here.
    So at least I cannot discuss anything I want here, even though it is not personal, no vendetta, no rant, no trolling - just a couple of facts I dare not mention here.
    QFT

  13. #13
    RIFT Guide Writer Soulshield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simple Things View Post
    But apparently having spent more than a paycheck of most trion employees as single person doesn't entitle me to ask for a polished game that is actually fun to play.
    If you read a few of Archonix posts in the forums/streams you should know that new content which may bring in more cash is more prioritized than having a good quality product.
    A good indicator for this is probably that the bug list(it`s good thing that there is not such a thing for all bugs) is growing faster than the patch notes each week.

    Even bugs(wrong usage of copy&paste) which require you to update one number can`t be done for weeks(guess priority)...for me it`s unbelievable because something like this is a max 5 minute task unless you can`t find the right place in your own code.
    Prof. Akylios passenger of the Choo Choo train
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  14. #14
    Plane Touched EJAvil's Avatar
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    So many legitimate questions to be answered

    I find this topic fascinating and hope to hear an official word on it, soon.

  15. #15
    Ascendant ecru's Avatar
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    why hasn't this been fixed lol
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