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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Why CoA was realeased too early!!

  1. #46
    Telaran Dspell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rheven View Post
    Holding the stone in Whitehorse Steppes is not an exploit. Actually if often leads to fifteen minutes of nonstop pvp.

    but was it intended to be played that way? That's the real question...because if it's not "working as intended" it's an "exploit" according to the devs. It also makes the other team mad which could be considered "trolling" or "griefing".
    Last edited by Dspell; 06-01-2016 at 09:44 PM.

  2. #47
    RIFT Fan Site Operator Hewi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gankt View Post
    LOL....

    #1 Deja vu?
    #2 Inorx says hello...bow to your king
    #3 Snipers rein supreme. Whory OP, someone start a petition to get him unbanned from Rift life.
    #4 Hundreds is bad....smash 1234 faster you pleb, this is rift
    #5 Still holding all my credits from stomping you bads, stop crying about scripted encounters and start playing against each other. Happy to donate them to a good tourney.
    Of every post here this made me giggle the most, but this is still most likely to result in the unspeakable happening from the unmentionable logged-in users on this forum. #fair
    Last edited by Hewi; 06-01-2016 at 09:54 PM. Reason: mixed up for and from
    NA#1 T-Rex. One of the token aussies for -Lemme Smash-
    RIP Coriolis.

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  3. #48
    RIFT Fan Site Operator Hewi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dspell View Post
    but was it intended to be played that way? That's the real question...because if it's not "working as intended" it's an "exploit" according to the devs. It also makes the other team mad which could be considered "trolling" or "griefing".
    This is why the definition of exploiting has been blown out of proportion, distorted and misused. 'Exploiting' feels like the word that's now used to describe everything that wasn't fixed (that should have been), and is dropped on people we don't like, when we feel like it.
    NA#1 T-Rex. One of the token aussies for -Lemme Smash-
    RIP Coriolis.

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  4. #49
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hewi View Post
    This is why the definition of exploiting has been blown out of proportion, distorted and misused. 'Exploiting' feels like the word that's now used to describe everything that wasn't fixed (that should have been), and is dropped on people we don't like, when we feel like it.
    Look Hewi if the duck quacks its an exploit, just say sorry and you'll be un banned in 3 days :3

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpheus View Post
    Look Hewi if the duck quacks its an exploit, just say sorry and you'll be un banned in 3 days :3
    Hewi said he didn't participate in that kill, he also stated he wasn't banned.
    Quote Originally Posted by Klutch817 View Post
    "I don't like what you're saying, so I'mma get triggered and shame you somehow." ~RIFT Forums, 2016

  6. #51
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aayden View Post
    Hewi said he didn't participate in that kill, he also stated he wasn't banned.

    Raise your hand if you remember half Coriolis's raid roster being banned at the start of 2k15

    xD
    Last edited by Alpheus; 06-01-2016 at 10:16 PM. Reason: I no spell good.

  7. #52
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    As someone with no real dog in this fight I think this reflects far worse on Trion than the guild involved. As time has gone on it seems that mechanics function properly less and less and it's to the point where it's too ambiguous whether something is WAI or not.
    Even the dev responses as to what is and isn't an exploit is murky and seems to vary from response to response. As a side note I think there should have a thread sticky where anytime someone asks via a PM for clarification on WAI or exploit the response is posted there by a dev to remove some of the ambiguity and remove the "I didn't know it was an exploit" etc and make it black and white if something is allowed or not instead of guild 1 basically getting the nod to do something while guild 2 is told not to.

    There also seems be definite bias involved given how punishments(or lackthereof) are handled which again reflects poorly on the company.

    The cynic in me wonders if this isn't just part of a concerted effort over the last 6 months or so to reduce the number of serious raiders with the intent being to either make it so less resources have to be spent making sure raids are challenging and less of a focal point and to replace those serious raiders with more casual players who will provide less/no resistance to potential future changes like putting more BiS gear on the store for cash or something along those lines. No idea if that's actually the case(I would hope not) but at the same time "if it quacks like a duck".....

  8. #53
    Telaran Ethaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waseem2k View Post
    All I'm hearing is a lot of "That guild killed a boss before ours, they must have exploited.



    Looking at this list it should be obviously clear what is and isn't an exploit.
    -Using the Safespot for waves. Not an Exploit guild banned, not the only "exploit" used (1)
    -CCing adds to control how you kill them. Not an Exploit has anybody ever mentioned this as a potential exploit?
    -CCing adds to force them to despawn and not have to kill them. Exploit one guild banned (not the only "exploit" used, one not; labeled as a dev as "unintended interaction" (2)
    -Delaying enrage by dragging boss around. Exploit guild banned, not the only "exploit" used (3)

    It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out
    Let's add positioning the tank so that the boss doesn't deal full AoE damage as (4). guld banned, not the only "exploit" used

    Correct me if I got something wrong from the videos / forum posts. Before Trion's actions I was quite confident that (1) is not an exploit, while (2), (3) and (4) are exploits. After the bans, as any rocket scientist can figure out, the only possible explanation is that only (3) and (4) are exploits. That's not what you claim in your post, though. See the grey area now?

    All it takes is a simple statement from Trion telling us which of these are considered exploits and which aren't. Or better yet, fixing the fight so that exploits are not possible.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artak View Post
    As time has gone on it seems that mechanics function properly less and less and it's to the point where it's too ambiguous whether something is WAI or not.
    Even the dev responses as to what is and isn't an exploit is murky and seems to vary from response to response.
    There are several topics discussed in this thread:

    -- Trion keep releasing unfinished raids so that cash gear can be put on store ASAP. Yes I agree Everyone hates it.

    -- Discussion of the above as a way to blur the line between fair play and exploit. I didn't watch the stream, but guildies who did thought it was clearly exploit. Let's be honest here, cori has so many experienced players who know this game so well, yet not one of them felt it kinda cheesy to remove the raid dmg, and push past hard enrage timer?

    -- Finger pointing at other players for various exploits and devs for unfixed bugs. I think this is an immature attempt at obscuring the severity of the offense, and really isn't helping cori's cause from trion's perspective.

    -- Cori's victim complex. It might be true Trion is harsh on cori, but ever wondered why out of so many guilds cori got picked on?

  10. #55
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theriene View Post

    -- Cori's victim complex. It might be true Trion is harsh on cori, but ever wondered why out of so many guilds cori got picked on?
    Cuz Apoth isn't here anymore.

    1234

  11. #56
    Plane Touched Siggysig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theriene View Post

    -- Discussion of the above as a way to blur the line between fair play and exploit. I didn't watch the stream, but guildies who did thought it was clearly exploit. Let's be honest here, cori has so many experienced players who know this game so well, yet not one of them felt it kinda cheesy to remove the raid dmg, and push past hard enrage timer?
    Yeah, they definitely were like "This is an exploit guys, let's keep streaming it!" Makes sense.


    Quote Originally Posted by Theriene View Post
    -- Finger pointing at other players for various exploits and devs for unfixed bugs. I think this is an immature attempt at obscuring the severity of the offense, and really isn't helping cori's cause from trion's perspective.

    Yes, expecting consistency and fairness in standards, rules and treatment is very immature. Wanting clarity in what is and isn't allowed, because that appears to change guild to guild and mood to mood, is also so very immature.


    Quote Originally Posted by Theriene View Post
    -- Cori's victim complex. It might be true Trion is harsh on cori, but ever wondered why out of so many guilds cori got picked on?
    -snip-
    Last edited by Siggysig; 06-02-2016 at 12:12 AM.

  12. #57
    RIFT Fan Site Operator Hewi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theriene View Post
    -- Discussion of the above as a way to blur the line between fair play and exploit. I didn't watch the stream, but guildies who did thought it was clearly exploit. Let's be honest here, cori has so many experienced players who know this game so well, yet not one of them felt it kinda cheesy to remove the raid dmg, and push past hard enrage timer?
    I haven't watched the stream that people are referring to, so pardon any ignorance.. Nor have I found anywhere that actually says what the ban was for, so what we're really doing is trying to pick out what could possibly be taken the wrong way (clearly, in this case, everything) and saying that's the ban-worthy reason. So, what was it?

    Kiting a boss so that it doesn't kill the tank.. clearly, this is the first time that anyone has ever done this, and certainly deserves a ban. Wait, what? Hasn't this been something that we've done in raids all over the place since we started raiding? Oh crap, the boss has enraged. Run away, and hope that the raid can kill it before it catches up to me and I die. I don't think that in itself says much more than "let's make the boss move faster, and hotfix this". If the boss was kited around for hours on end and killed is a different story, but that's not what happened here either, is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Theriene View Post
    -- Finger pointing at other players for various exploits and devs for unfixed bugs. I think this is an immature attempt at obscuring the severity of the offense, and really isn't helping cori's cause from trion's perspective.
    Not all of the finger pointing is coming from Coriolis, so I don't think that's really a fair comment. It's not obscuring anything, it's trying to raise other points at the same time. Helping Cori's case is irrelevant given that the players that were raiding at the time have already been perma-banned.

    There are plenty of people that have exploited different parts of the game, and those that are the most vocal are the ones that are noticed. Just because parts of Cori are picked on, doesn't mean that they're the only ones getting picked on - just that they're the ones that get noticed because they're most vocal about it.
    Edit: Tried to rewrite that last paragraph to make more sense, but whatever.
    Last edited by Hewi; 06-02-2016 at 12:01 AM.
    NA#1 T-Rex. One of the token aussies for -Lemme Smash-
    RIP Coriolis.

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  13. #58
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hewi View Post
    I haven't watched the stream that people are referring to, so pardon any ignorance.. Nor have I found anywhere that actually says what the ban was for, so what we're really doing is trying to pick out what could possibly be taken the wrong way (clearly, in this case, everything) and saying that's the ban-worthy reason. So, what was it?
    .
    Whenever the boss attacked the tank it would splash AoE onto the raid, and during a certain phase where he casts waves the boss happens to root himself.
    So by standing at a certain range you can by pass the raid healing for that phase. This happens twice in the fight

    And it just so happens the boss casts waves when it hits enrage so it roots itself allowing enrage to go on forever basically (Even though spreading out at enrage is the right thing to do).

    I think that's the part of the fight in question
    Last edited by Remingtonsteely; 06-02-2016 at 12:42 AM. Reason: Stuff

  14. #59
    Rift Disciple catpaw's Avatar
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    My two cents, as someone who is not in any of these guilds and has nothing to do with the situation:

    Regardless if whether or not what Coriolis did was an exploit to a higher degree than what other guilds have been doing in CoA, this is a bad move. The raiding scene in this game is already hanging on by a thread with the very few raiding guilds left quitting left and right. There were what, like 3 serious raiding guilds left on NA including Coriolis? And now that's one less. Content needs to be released to work properly the first time. If a boss is working improperly then that's a development fail and not really the fault of the guild. The difference between this time and the first time Coriolis members got sweeping bans is that this time they probably don't want to come back. I saw one of them say on the forums just the other day that the members they had left planned on making CoA their last raid in Rift ever. The whole public apology and slap on the wrist thing works if they actually want to continue playing the game, which I doubt they do anymore. And after all this drama regarding the new raid, I wouldn't be surprised if other raiding guilds followed suit until there are no true raiding guilds left in this game.

  15. #60
    Rift Disciple Aksinan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by catpaw View Post
    My two cents, as someone who is not in any of these guilds and has nothing to do with the situation:

    Regardless if whether or not what Coriolis did was an exploit to a higher degree than what other guilds have been doing in CoA, this is a bad move. The raiding scene in this game is already hanging on by a thread with the very few raiding guilds left quitting left and right. There were what, like 3 serious raiding guilds left on NA including Coriolis? And now that's one less. Content needs to be released to work properly the first time. If a boss is working improperly then that's a development fail and not really the fault of the guild. The difference between this time and the first time Coriolis members got sweeping bans is that this time they probably don't want to come back. I saw one of them say on the forums just the other day that the members they had left planned on making CoA their last raid in Rift ever. The whole public apology and slap on the wrist thing works if they actually want to continue playing the game, which I doubt they do anymore. And after all this drama regarding the new raid, I wouldn't be surprised if other raiding guilds followed suit until there are no true raiding guilds left in this game.
    I might be wrong but I don't think this worries them. If you notice they have said nothing about a new expansion allthough they are allready on Tier 4??
    To me this smells like a plan to sometime soon discontinue further development and just milk it for as much as possible before that.
    So if they don't plan on doing many more raids. And if they do they might be easier once.
    Then having loudmouthed complaining raiders might be considered a bad thing

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