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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: A Big Thank You for the Recent Raid Changes

  1. #1
    Plane Touched
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    Default A Big Thank You for the Recent Raid Changes

    I wanted to give a sincere Thank You to the Trion team for the recent changes to the T1, T2 and T3 NT raids.

    I am a raid leader for a casual raiding guild and I have been leading raids in Rift for over 5 years. Lately, I have been despairing for the future of raiding in Rift. Chocolate Rift had some of the best raiding seen in any MMO. Challenging Raid content was produced on a fairly rapid pace to keep hardcore raiding guilds busy. As new tiers of raids were introduced, the previous tiers were nerfed down to a reasonable level so they were accessable to casual raiding guilds and PUG raids.

    All that shifted once new Trion leadership took over with Storm Legion. The new motto was "no raiding nerfs" and a tight focus on designing and testing raids only with the top hardcore raiding guilds. Casual raiding guilds were left with little content to consume and the number of PUG raids declined rapidly. This trend only became worse with Nightmare Tide. As a raid leader, I keep in touch with my raid leader peers in dozens of casual and hardcore raiding guilds. It's been sad to see the large exodus of casual raiders, with dozens and dozens of casual raiding guilds dissappearing from Rift. My own guild has been around since Rift started and until yesterday, I was sure we were not going to last till 4.0 as there was no more raid content designed for us to consume in NT.

    It's a shame that there are so few casual raiding guilds left, so there are not many raid leaders left to chime in with their own Thank You. But the recent changes offer a glimmer of hope for the future. Just yesterday I noticed more PUG raids running in one day than you normally see in a week. It's only one day, but hopefully the start of a trend. I ask that Trion commit to returning to the "introduce new challenging raid tier and nerf previous tier" method in Rift 4.0 that worked so successfully in Chocolate Rift.

    Again, Thank You.

  2.   This is the last Rift Team post in this thread.   #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wali View Post

    Again, Thank You.
    You're welcome. Please do let us know if they were ultimately effective in their goal.

    Happy Hunting,

    Anony

  3. #3
    Soulwalker
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    As a "hardcore" raider that played for 0-2 days/week, casually missing numerous raids unnanounced to my team when I felt like not playing RIFT, I already felt like MoM was way too easy. Non existant DPS checks with the exception of Dark Genesis, mechanics that are FAR too forgiving (the ones that instantly kill you were WAY too easy to avoid, with the exception of the Lady Justice rings... even on that one, you didn't have to do anything else while dodging).

    I don't play this game for loot, I passed on loot almost every time I had the opportunity to get an upgrade because I was such a casual and would randomly miss raids unannounced. With these extra unnecessary nerfs, that's all that MoM is now. Just a place to go roll the loot dice once a week with 19 (or less, don't need anything close to 20) guildmates/pugs. And before you go off quoting how many guilds killed X amount of bosses before the nerfs, that does NOT have to do with how difficult these bosses are. Anyone that puts in the necessary effort to kill these bosses can kill 7+/9 with little trouble. This is just an example of a) how little raiders are left in this game, and b) of the raiders that are left, a small proportion of them want to put in the marginal effort it takes to raid.

    Because of this smaller playerbase that has such a diversity in skill/effort/gear/etc., this is even more warrant for raids that have multiple levels of difficulty.

    As for T1 and T2, that's fine. There should be some sort of catch-up mechanic for new players or the "less-inclined playerbase" (this is a more appropriate term than "casual") for raid content that is not the current tier. But just catering to the masses that are loot-hungry, and degrading the 1 raid that still requires a marginal amount of skill & gear? It's taking it a step too far.
    Last edited by Kerada; 05-05-2016 at 04:41 PM.

  4. #4
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    I was honestly dissappointed when I heard about the nerfs. My guild was still early on in MoM before the Nerfs. We kill Pagura every week but we have been progressing on Arak for a long time. I wouldn't say we're super good, but most guild's aren't farther then that. After the nerfs dropped we killed Arak in one try, followed closely by Fauxmire with no previous experience. In all honesty, I was disappointed. These bosses felt very easy for t3. However, once we completed arak we got to see the rest of the dungeon. Mind of Madness is a beautiful raid and we had no idea. We were laughing along and having fun with all the different trash and terrain. So now my guild gets to see some more of the bosses, and others will get to come in.

    I think overall this change will be good, although it'll be weird seeing groups composed of 25k dpsers progressing through t1
    Last edited by Spinix; 05-05-2016 at 08:58 PM.

  5. #5
    Champion of Telara Ongar's Avatar
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    Once in a galaxy far, far away player A wrote in a forum "bosses too hard, cannot do". However player B responded "no you just have to play better, Im already bored." And this discussion would have went on for all eternity, but then somebody had an idea and it was called difficulty modes.

    And as this discussion shows, I hope that from now on forward all of Rift raids get more than one difficulty. However sophisticated difficulty modes with extra mechanics cost development time, that might - might not - always be there. And if the time for sophisticated difficulty modes isnt there, I would do what GW 1 did for its Normal/Hard Mode system ages ago:
    Numbers up by 30 %. Done.
    Last edited by Ongar; 05-05-2016 at 10:00 PM.

  6. #6
    Ascendant Artewig's Avatar
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    To be honest, it doesn't feel like raiding to me anymore. I've been in the hardcore guilds and I'm currently in a progressing guild. Before the nerfs, we were 1/9. But each week, we struggled to hit 1/9. People didn't show up, people messed up mechanics, people weren't playing the proper specs. The raid as a whole outgeared the fight, but because pieces of raiding were missing, we struggled. Now, two nights after the nerf, the guild is 3/9 with the Nexus complete and sub 50% on Enigma. I am all for accessibility, but you can have players that slack on mechanics, pull subpar dps, and put new players into new roles and still down bosses. It's great that more can see the content, I'm happy about that. It's just as a raider, I miss actual raiding. Progression now entails seeing the mechanics. Once you've seen the mechanics, the boss is basically dead. Nevernind dps checks, nevernind heal checks. I'd say Bulf was more of a progession fight than post-nerf Fauxmire or Enigma.

    I honestly don't feel like raiding because it is hardly raiding. I'll keep doing it because I love the guild, but no idea what the future holds. From the sounds of things, this is just the start. It's too late to revert now, but hopefully they'll take the raiders into consideration for 4.0.
    Last edited by Artewig; 05-05-2016 at 11:54 PM.
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  7. #7
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    MoM is as easy as a dungeon now, where's the fun in that...
    :: Natia@Zaviel :: Rogue :: Stuffs cleared ::

  8. #8
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    I really like the changes.
    If you still want challenge, just take less guys with you. We are doing RoF 3man at the moment, its really challenging and fun

    <Transcendent>


  9. #9
    Telaran Megron's Avatar
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    Personally I'm not against nerfs, but the recent nerfs in MoM does seem a bit drastic.

    MoM is supposed to be THE endgame right now, being the highest tiered 20man there currently is. Sadly right now it seems like all the challenge has been removed from this raid, even Lady Envy is now close to the challenge level of Planebreaker Bastion's entry boss, Eggtenders. If not even easier.

    While it's nice to get some more raiders in to the game, the nerfs removed all the fun from those guilds who wanted a challenge in their progression. I'm also afraid that the new people who gets in to raiding because of the changes to the accessibility of raids (nerfs), will think it's alright to play any subpar spec they feel is the "coolest" to play while progressing in highest tiered raids.

    I do hope that in the future things will be done differently to give access to raids for a larger audience, while still allowing the keep the challenge for guild who wants the challenge instead of just free loot. It just needs to done so that the raids are worthwhile for those who want it easy and for those who wants the challenge.

    EDIT:
    As for the previous tiers, I can't say much as I haven't done them after the nerfs (or even at all for a while now). But if it helps raiders/guilds to get more people in and speeds up the gearing process. I have no issue with that.

    EDIT2:
    I would also like to see older raids made a bit more relevant in some way again for those who have already moved on to other tiers. I really liked doing the previous tier raids back in vanilla/chocolate when they still had weekly quests.
    Last edited by Megron; 05-06-2016 at 02:19 AM.

  10. #10
    Shield of Telara Wilkoss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natia View Post
    MoM is as easy as a dungeon now, where's the fun in that...
    Says the person with MoM 8/9 in her signature...


    We are currently actively recruiting, if you are an exceptional player of any class please find an officer in game for a chat - Guild info is Here

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  11. #11
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    It's also nice that you can do RoF EM as a more challenging 2-man chronicle now.
    RoF Ungolok 2-man
    Aryione@Gelidra
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    MoM 9/9 2/2 HM

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aryione View Post
    It's also nice that you can do RoF EM as a more challenging 2-man chronicle now.
    RoF Ungolok 2-man
    Here 3man normal mode ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj26B-wjkIU )
    We tried it with cleric tank and 2 DDs, even though the healing was no problem, the boss kept oneshotting us with his charge <30%, so we changed to a Healer. Was pretty brain afk then, but still fun.
    We tried also second boss, but we wiped on the boss in enrage with one add left with 100k life ^^ Hopefully we kill it today
    Honestly, killing those RoF bosses with only a few people is really really fun.

    edit: video blocked in germany, due to copyright claims.^^
    Last edited by Filri; 05-06-2016 at 07:25 AM.

    <Transcendent>


  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilkoss View Post
    Says the person with MoM 8/9 in her signature...
    wtf does 8/9 have to do with that??
    :: Natia@Zaviel :: Rogue :: Stuffs cleared ::

  14. #14
    Champion Sahtiaro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natia View Post
    wtf does 8/9 have to do with that??
    You can keep progressing on AA and ''having fun'' there. AA didn't get nerfed and it remains a real challenge.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sahtiaro View Post
    You can keep progressing on AA and ''having fun'' there. AA didn't get nerfed and it remains a real challenge.
    yea, but you fall asleep on your way there!
    :: Natia@Zaviel :: Rogue :: Stuffs cleared ::

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