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Thread: Enjoyability of raid encounters

  1. #1
    Shadowlander
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    Default Enjoyability of raid encounters

    With T4 being announced, I’d like to give my -personal- insight on what makes a fight enjoyable to progress on and farm, in the hope that this will somehow positively affect the development of the instance. I have had multiple raiders quit throughout the tier because of one or several of these issues and I hate having to replace people. However, if the planned 10 man is an intrepid of any sort, then please delete this post as it will have no value. Also, please don’t make another tier of only intrepids, T2 was absolutely horrendous.

    Anyway, I have come up with x key points where most of it categorizes in:
    [1] Progressive failure (I.e. a mechanic failure will slowly set you back until you can no longer successfully complete the encounter)
    [2] Lack of stale phases
    [3] Relevant and fine tuned enrage timer
    [4] Lack of gamebreaking bugs
    [5] Fine tuned damage numbers
    [6] Allowing multiple viable strategies

    I will further explain what I mean with those things by example of each of the current MoM bosses by giving them a rating on how much I personally enjoyed the fight and why. I will use “[..]” to indicate the key points mentioned above.

    Pagura: 10/10
    This is probably the best encounter in the instance, despite it being the first boss. Hex of x is a very well designed mechanic. It gives most of the raid a responsibility and makes everybody relevant. Failing a hex giving you a debuff instead of wiping the raid is really good, like mentioned before you don’t want a single player failure to instantly wipe the raid, but only set the raid back a certain amount [1]. Somewhat unfortunate that the timing of the golems made it so that curse of five and curse of six were no longer mechanics because you can just let the entire raid eat it. We didn’t know that during progression though, so I guess it is fine. The nests and the adds were really interesting too, there are multiple ways of dealing with them [6].

    Lord Arak: 9/10
    The way the adds worked allowed multiple ways of dealing with them and most of them require tank+dom or tank+dps to deal with them [6], which was pretty enjoyable to figure out. Then again, you can let one person (i.e dominator) deal with them and they are no longer a mechanic. (Delete dom please, it limits raid comp design) The interrupts are really good, it requires awareness and doesn’t instantly wipe you if you fail, it only sets you back [1]. Divide and conquer and despair crystal walls were really good mechanics that worked well together. The raid damage outside of DnC could have been higher though [5]. The encounter was solo raid healable at release and that made enrage really easy.

    Fauxmire: -1/10 (Yes, minus one)
    I would say this encounter has stale phases [2], but nothing really happens in the fight at all. The little mechanics this fight has gets negated by the undertuned enrage [3], which made it possible to 2 raid heal, which just nullified everything because you would just heal through bioluminescence. Speaking of that mechanic, the fact that you don’t know who triggered it made it absolutely horrendous to progress on. Having to wipe at 1:30 because the phasing doesn’t trigger is also such a waste of time [4]. I was told that this dev made unreasonable things. I am thoroughly disappointed in your lack of unreasonability.

    The Enigma: 3.5/10
    Why is this so specific? Because if you split the score up into the phases it would look like this:
    100%-60%: 0/10
    60%-25%: 10/10
    25%-0%: 0/10
    The Enigma was a boss for exactly 35% of it. The other phases are mindnumbingly boring because there is no raid damage outside of Emission of Turmoil and dps just sit there and dps. Pandemonium was barely a mechanic since saving raid cooldowns wasn’t even necessary [5]. The fact that enrage is just non-existant made it that the healing check is also irrelevant because most guilds would run this amazing 4 raid heal comp where the 4th healer doesn’t do anything but it’s there for fluff and a battle res [3]. It also just makes it so you can die infinite times and not get punished for it. The last phase is also terrible because one player can wipe the raid [1]. The entire raid should deal with the mechanic, not just two people. The run around phase was really fun though, it’s really easy once you get it but it makes you pay attention to where you walk.

    Pillars of Justice: NaN/10
    I can’t judge this fight because half of it just doesn’t work [4]. Bugs include, but are not limited to:
    -Trial of Brutality sometimes just doesn’t cast
    -The swap throws people outside of the lockout
    -The swap throws people in the ground and ports them back to their original position
    -Writ of accusations doesn’t work 95% of the time
    -The 50% minute long cast (Name?) doesn’t cast sometimes or only casts on one boss
    -Libra goes off even though the bosses are perfectly balanced
    -Etc etc.

    Lady Justice: 5/10
    WHY IS THE ENRAGE 12 MINUTES [3]? There are so many things you can optimize about dps on that fight, i.e making sure Libra doesn’t heal too much, deciding on who you send up, etc. [6] But instead you can just do whatever you want and still be able to kill the boss. Speaking of that, you could’ve at least made the boss auto attack sub 10%. Because the enrage is so low, you can have only 5 people alive at the last phase and still kill the boss. Raid damage is also non-existant other than the first add phase [5]. Why is this damage not there at the second add phase? If this enrage is tuned for HM, then it’s just too easy for a HM. I have seen players be dead for a significant portion of the fight and it was still possible to kill the boss. Other than that, add phases are really cool [6]. Order in the Court is boring, make more mechanics happen during that pls [2].

    Lady Envy: 8/10
    The tank damage and Detonation of Strife and the healing check in the portals is what made this fight really fun [5]. Nothing much to say about this, it’s pretty well designed. Only complaints are that the eyes don’t really do anything because you can just ignore them and that made the dps check rather low. I think it would’ve been more interesting if they were given more HP, but didn’t respawn or despawn at the last phase.

    Dark Genesis: 10/10
    Don’t be fooled by the high rating, it is only there because it was really fun to be forced to synchronize all of your cooldowns and consumables because of the tight enrage [3]. Recently killing this boss is what made me realise how fun bosses could be if you just fine tune it. This type of tuning is what bosses such as The Enigma and Lady Justice should've had. Mechanic wise, this boss is a parsing dummy from 91%-20% [2]. I know there used to be more mechanics on PTS, but where did they go?

    Arisen Arak: ??/10
    We are bad and haven’t seen it yet.

    It has been said multiple times on these forums but I shall reiterate: Raiders are not opposed to waiting an extra month for our raids, as long as they are mostly bug free and fine tuned.

    Tl;dr I want T4 to be better than T3.
    Last edited by CoffeeJelly; 03-04-2016 at 01:29 AM.
    <Nephilim>

  2. #2
    Ascendant ecru's Avatar
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    pillars should just be disabled and replaced with a loot chest until it actually works properly imo. from the streams i've watched the fight is still embarrassingly buggy and players should not have to deal with that garbage on live.
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  3. #3
    Telaran
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    I mean pillars are quite funny the way they are right now:

    You always get a different fight. You will never get a fight there which equals the fight u had the week before

    It indeed ****s me up if we lose time on an easy boss only 'cause nothing works as intended.
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  4. #4
    Rift Disciple
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    Arak should have absorbed Viz and Mis instead of Lady J if he really wanted to be all-powerful.

  5. #5
    RIFT Fan Site Operator Raive's Avatar
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    PoJ is real definition of WildStar's "dynamic content"

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  6. #6
    Telaran ChinaPandaMan's Avatar
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    All I wanna say is I hate you for keeping my screaming at the end in our DG kill video.

    so Dark Genesis: 0/10. ;-;
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  7. #7
    Champion Sahtiaro's Avatar
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    I think MoM is an awesome raid, it has bugs but I generally enjoy it.

    I give Dark Genesis 10/10 fight, by far favorite fight in this game. It reminds me of Thrax a bit and it requires a lot of min/maxing.
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  8. #8
    Rift Chaser Electrah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sahtiaro View Post
    I think MoM is an awesome raid, it has bugs but I generally enjoy it.
    Oh I agree. I love the design, the art (except for the sky, which looks like a bunch of textures thrown on a pile), and the idea behind the mechanics.

    But it does get annoying to wipe a few times in a row due to mechanics not working, or trash respawning right on top of you, ...
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  9. #9
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChinaPandaMan View Post
    All I wanna say is I hate you for keeping my screaming at the end in our DG kill video.

    so Dark Genesis: 0/10. ;-;
    I mean... You mentioned it, so I had to do it right? Now that you mentioned it, anyone is gonna want to hear that Thx for the free publicity to my video though.
    <Nephilim>

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoffeeJelly View Post
    I mean... You mentioned it, so I had to do it right? Now that you mentioned it, anyone is gonna want to hear that Thx for the free publicity to my video though.
    You guys had great dps on your kill, you can tell you were really on point with your cooldowns

  11. #11
    Shield of Telara Wilkoss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoffeeJelly View Post
    Lady Envy: 8/10
    The tank damage and Detonation of Strife and the healing check in the portals is what made this fight really fun [5]. Nothing much to say about this, itís pretty well designed. Only complaints are that the eyes donít really do anything because you can just ignore them and that made the dps check rather low. I think it wouldíve been more interesting if they were given more HP, but didnít respawn or despawn at the last phase.
    The idea of the eyes was good. You bring all 3 to the boss and kill them one at a time gaining a run buff for each up to 3 stacks. Kill them too close together and your raid wipes and they hurt!

    Unfortunately the runspeed buff isn't needed at all to complete the portals so no-one bothers with them.

    During PTS testing we suggested to the Dev that upon gaining 3 stacks you should also get +50% DPS for 30 seconds, and give the portal adds +50% HP. This would mean you have to do the eyes to get past the portals.

    Obviously they would have to not spawn during the last phase, or tailor the enrage timer so you have to try and keep the +50% buff up during the final phase.


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