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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Crucia ?

  1. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gery View Post
    Maybe you phrased the question wrong. Instead of asking for example "Are we allowed to stop dps for a while during the fight?" maybe you asked "Are we allowed to intentionally glitch the script so that we don't wipe to enrage for an extra minute and a half, trivialize the dps checks and can ignore the mechanics of second transition?"
    Gery for president!
    Last edited by TGArthur; 02-19-2015 at 03:09 PM.
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  2.   Click here to go to the next Rift Team post in this thread.   #107
    Rift Team Ocho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wickede View Post
    seems to me like knowing the timers on the script for this fight allows you to entire skip a phase by pushing the sub 40 phase the second after the timer checks for sub 40 crystal phase, am i correct on assuming that? also is it supposed to kill you the second you fail the crystal phase?
    I went ahead and got an official outline of the mechanics in this fight, as it's relevant to this conversation. Stop reading now if you don't want the fight spoiled.


    Crucia's Phasing & Enrage Mechanics

    Phase Transitions:
    Crucia's Phase transitions are tied to two things:
    o % of HP
    o Whether or not she has cast "Charged Breath" recently.
    o Crucia casts Charged Breath for every N casts of Blink. N begins at 1, and goes up by 1 every time she does it.
     So, when you first engage her, she will cast Locking On, then Blink, and then Charged Breath.
     Her next cycle, she will cast Locking On, then Blink, then Locking On again, then Blink again, and then Charged Breath.
     Her next cycle she will cast Locking On/Blink three times before casting Charged Breath.
     And so on.
    o So, if Crucia is below 80% hp, then she will transition into Phase 2 after she casts Charged Breath.
    o And, if Crucia is below 40% hp, then she will transition into Phase 4 after she casts Charged Breath.
    o So, if you get Crucia to 81%, and keep her there until she casts Locking On, then she will not transition, no matter how far below 80% she goes, until she casts Charged Breath.
    o Therefore, it is possible to control your DPS and push her health significantly lower than 80% before she catches up and casts Phasing.
    o It is also possible to do this with the 40% threshold for Phase 4.

    Enrage:
    Crucia's "Enrage" is handled via the ability Storm of Failure. On Crucia has been in combat for 9 minutes, Storm of Failure is added to the list of abilities she can cast when in normal combat.
    If Crucia is Phased, however, she uses a different set of abilities.
    This means that you can push the fight beyond the 9 minute "enrage timer" without her technically "being enraged," and, thus, upon leaving Phase 4 she will have access to her normal combat abilities, including Storm of Failure.
    Storm of Failure has a 3 second cast time, and won't necessarily be cast *immediately* upon Crucia leaving phase 4
    o Sometimes Crucia casts Chain Lightning upon leaving Phase 4 before she uses Storm of Failure. Chain Lightning lasts for 3 seconds.
    So, after exiting Phase 4, even if Crucia is enraged, it may be a number of seconds before she finishes casting Storm of Failure. And, if you kill her while she's mid-cast, she is dead and the cast won't go off.

    Phase 4:
    In Phase 4, the Magnetic Bubbles are necessary to move charges back and forth across the fight space, so that you can damage (and kill) the Storm Capacitors.
    Phase 4 ends either when Crucia's Phasing buff wears off (99 seconds) or when one of the Storm Capacitors has been killed.
    When Phase 4 ends, any Storm Capacitors still alive will cast Discharge, reducing your maximum health by the amount of health they have remaining.
    This cast takes 7 seconds to complete. Therefore, you can fail Phase 4 outright but still win if you kill Crucia before the Capacitors finish their cast; just as you can skip Phase 4 completely if you kill Crucia before she enters it.

    TL;DR:
    It is possible to push Crucia below 40% before she can Phase. If your burst DPS is high enough, and you time this burst so that it happens immediately after she locks herself out of Phasing, then you could kill her before she has a chance to enter Phase 4.
    Or, with slightly less DPS, you could push her so low, that even "Failing" Phase 4, you could kill her between Phase 4 ending and the first cast of Storm of Failure or Discharge, and successfully kill her.

    Lastly
    For normal mode Crucia, this strategy was known and intentionally left in the fight. That said, honest (and respectful) reactions are appreciated, and inform our future decisions.


    Hopefully that clarifies a number of questions on the mechanics.

  3. #108
    Rift Master YobiRaion's Avatar
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    this is getting more and more professional. thank you
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  4. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by ocho View Post
    i went ahead and got an official outline of the mechanics in this fight, as it's relevant to this conversation. Stop reading now if you don't want the fight spoiled.


    Crucia's phasing & enrage mechanics

    phase transitions:
    crucia's phase transitions are tied to two things:
    O % of hp
    o whether or not she has cast "charged breath" recently.
    O crucia casts charged breath for every n casts of blink. N begins at 1, and goes up by 1 every time she does it.
     so, when you first engage her, she will cast locking on, then blink, and then charged breath.
     her next cycle, she will cast locking on, then blink, then locking on again, then blink again, and then charged breath.
     her next cycle she will cast locking on/blink three times before casting charged breath.
     and so on.
    O so, if crucia is below 80% hp, then she will transition into phase 2 after she casts charged breath.
    O and, if crucia is below 40% hp, then she will transition into phase 4 after she casts charged breath.
    O so, if you get crucia to 81%, and keep her there until she casts locking on, then she will not transition, no matter how far below 80% she goes, until she casts charged breath.
    O therefore, it is possible to control your dps and push her health significantly lower than 80% before she catches up and casts phasing.
    O it is also possible to do this with the 40% threshold for phase 4.

    Enrage:
    crucia's "enrage" is handled via the ability storm of failure. On crucia has been in combat for 9 minutes, storm of failure is added to the list of abilities she can cast when in normal combat.
    if crucia is phased, however, she uses a different set of abilities.
    this means that you can push the fight beyond the 9 minute "enrage timer" without her technically "being enraged," and, thus, upon leaving phase 4 she will have access to her normal combat abilities, including storm of failure.
    storm of failure has a 3 second cast time, and won't necessarily be cast *immediately* upon crucia leaving phase 4
    o sometimes crucia casts chain lightning upon leaving phase 4 before she uses storm of failure. Chain lightning lasts for 3 seconds.
    so, after exiting phase 4, even if crucia is enraged, it may be a number of seconds before she finishes casting storm of failure. And, if you kill her while she's mid-cast, she is dead and the cast won't go off.

    Phase 4:
    in phase 4, the magnetic bubbles are necessary to move charges back and forth across the fight space, so that you can damage (and kill) the storm capacitors.
    phase 4 ends either when crucia's phasing buff wears off (99 seconds) or when one of the storm capacitors has been killed.
    when phase 4 ends, any storm capacitors still alive will cast discharge, reducing your maximum health by the amount of health they have remaining.
    this cast takes 7 seconds to complete. Therefore, you can fail phase 4 outright but still win if you kill crucia before the capacitors finish their cast; just as you can skip phase 4 completely if you kill crucia before she enters it.

    Tl;dr:
    it is possible to push crucia below 40% before she can phase. If your burst dps is high enough, and you time this burst so that it happens immediately after she locks herself out of phasing, then you could kill her before she has a chance to enter phase 4.
    or, with slightly less dps, you could push her so low, that even "failing" phase 4, you could kill her between phase 4 ending and the first cast of storm of failure or discharge, and successfully kill her.

    Lastly
    for normal mode crucia, this strategy was known and intentionally left in the fight. That said, honest (and respectful) reactions are appreciated, and inform our future decisions.


    Hopefully that clarifies a number of questions on the mechanics.
    gooood dhjab!!!

  5. #110
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    hmmmmmmm... ok
    Last edited by Wanz; 02-19-2015 at 03:20 PM.

  6. #111
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    Why even bother to design phases that can be skipped?

  7. #112
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    Thank you, Ocho. Might I recommend not allowing phase manipulation like this in future bosses, unless it's explicitly a mechanic of the fight in question? (so, designing a boss to have a longer enrage timer if you kill some adds or something would be cool, but extending the timer by sitting on your hands wouldn't be) As designed, it fails the duck test for me as an outside observer.
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  8. #113
    RIFT Guide Writer Hababa's Avatar
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    Ocho

    You have explained why this tactic works, not why it is a legitimate strategy. What you have described is still abusing the mechanics to make the fight much easier than it should have been.

    This screams quack and any raider would have thought of this as an exploit.
    Last edited by Hababa; 02-19-2015 at 03:25 PM.
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  9. #114
    Champion of Telara Stihl's Avatar
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    I am going to reserve my final judgement on this based off the next few hotfixes. If any of these mechanics in question receive changes that make this current phase skipping strategy no longer possible, I think that will speak louder than anything that has been said in this thread.
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  10.   Click here to go to the next Rift Team post in this thread.   #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Choras View Post
    Thank you, Ocho. Might I recommend not allowing phase manipulation like this in future bosses, unless it's explicitly a mechanic of the fight in question? (so, designing a boss to have a longer enrage timer if you kill some adds or something would be cool, but extending the timer by sitting on your hands wouldn't be) As designed, it fails the duck test for me as an outside observer.
    We'll certainly keep that in mind. Anytime we ask players to be ornithologists we need to rethink how we communicate on this topic.

  11. #116
    Plane Walker Liadva's Avatar
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    I knew about the 80% phase change because during our first night of progression there was some tries we were getting phase change at 3 mins instead of about 1:40 which was about average, We then realised it only happend if we didn't dps her past 80%.

    I asked a dev wat the intended time change was and received an answer that didn't really make much sense. So we carried on with the 1:40 tactic presuming hitting robot phase late wasn't intended.
    The reason why I didn't think prolonging an enrage was legit was because, as someone already mentioned, W.H.O in Rhen of Fate. Guilds had achies revoked for prolonging the enrage.
    Why is this any different?

    Also how many bosses in rift have had "2" enrage timers? One being a huge challenge to hit and one being completely trivial??

    Thanks for the journey RIFT - It's been fun

  12. #117
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    Are you seriously telling us that intended purpose of the Crucia fight in the script.....INTENTIONALLY allows you to manipulate enrage timer?
    Gondole@Greybriar Warrior <Lucidium>
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    "If a warrior is out parsing you, you are doing something wrong" - Ahov

  13. #118
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    So Ocho described exactly how to exploit the fight, thank you. None of that information is evidence that it's actually the intended way of doing it.
    Last edited by Giggity; 02-19-2015 at 03:35 PM.

  14. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    TL;DR:
    • It is possible to push Crucia below 40% before she can Phase. If your burst DPS is high enough, and you time this burst so that it happens immediately after she locks herself out of Phasing, then you could kill her before she has a chance to enter Phase 4.
    Hasn't skipping phases usually been considered an exploit? You've been (Trion) a lot more strict on punishing exploits in the recent times and this seems like the first time (at least since nightmare tide) where people aren't getting punished for "creative use of mechanics" in a raid. My greatest concern is that this could tarnish your reputation for being impartial. This is the first time I've seen people get off the hook in a Nightmare Tide-raid for doing something that looks fishy so it's hard not to question why and whether it was because of who was doing it. Having people question about the possibility of nepotism can ruin a reputation really fast and it's difficult to get rid of the stigma once the customers have perceived it that way, even if it was completely false in the first place. (And silencing civil discussion about the matter will make everyone assume the worst, which has been shown time and time again. The Streisand effect is big. [Obviously that shouldn't mean to let trolls and horrible flamers run free])

    Edit: changed will -> could
    Last edited by Killerkonnat; 02-19-2015 at 03:37 PM.
    Quack?

  15.   Click here to go to the next Rift Team post in this thread.   #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerkonnat View Post
    Hasn't skipping phases usually been considered an exploit? You've been (Trion) a lot more strict on punishing exploits in the recent times and this seems like the first time (at least since nightmare tide) where people aren't getting punished for "creative use of mechanics" in a raid. My greatest concern is that this could tarnish your reputation for being impartial. This is the first time I've seen people get off the hook in a Nightmare Tide-raid for doing something that looks fishy so it's hard not to question why and whether it was because of who was doing it. Having people question about the possibility of nepotism can ruin a reputation really fast and it's difficult to get rid of the stigma once the customers have perceived it that way, even if it was completely false in the first place. (And silencing civil discussion about the matter will make everyone assume the worst, which has been shown time and time again. The Streisand effect is big. [Obviously that shouldn't mean to let trolls and horrible flamers run free])

    Edit: changed will -> could
    When fights have strict phases, skipping them is bad. When fights have softer phasing, it enters the realm of possibility. Most of the raids we have released lately have been of the former type, this is an example of the later. I'll leave it to you to voice your opinions on whether or not a diversity of content is a good thing; we're definitely listening on this point.

    As to nepotism, I certainly understand the concerns. It certainly creates additional work for me when a member of the team engage in high end raiding publicly (aside from those that do it anonymously). That being said, it's better for the game as a whole if our dev team can engage in as many different activities as possible as players; it helps us understand you better and make better content for you. The tradeoff is worth it in this case, and was considered before we chose to make any dev identities public.

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