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Thread: Rework Instance Locks

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Default Rework Instance Locks

    I'm not sure if this has been suggested already but a re-worked instance lock that allows you to enter an instance regardless of the ID lock . As an example, say I am locked at 1/4 GA and I want to be able to join another raid's instance who are also locked at 1/4 on another ID. In it's current state I find it is a hindrance for many people trying to pug raids.

  2. #2
    Shield of Telara
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    i totally support this idea if you get locked with 1 group to 1/4 GA why you shouldn't be able to join another group with all the members locked to 1/4 also? Im not asking to repeat or kill a boss 2 times im asking to let people keep progressing on bosses. I would like this apply to all raids, for sure it will be a good way to help people to progress even more and people will have more interest to raid. I have no idea of why this haven't been implemented yet. It will be good for the raiding community
    Last edited by elfaraon; 06-10-2014 at 06:05 AM.

  3. #3
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    I have a feeling this kind of thing won't happen because it is something engine related and raiding in itself is nowhere near trion's top priority, there are several threads i have seen suggesting this and so far no comment as well as no actions to change it. WoW did it quite effectively and i am sure that it again is something engine related or maybe even too much time involved coding it on the back end to make it worth it.

  4. #4
    Shield of Telara
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    'Smart lockouts' would be amazing. It would contribute greatly to the raiding community. I am 100% on board. Unfortunately, it is probably a lot of work from Trion's side which means it will never happen.
    Last edited by Attillaa; 06-10-2014 at 08:47 AM.

  5. #5
    Rift Master Ardwick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexx91 View Post
    I have a feeling this kind of thing won't happen because it is something engine related and raiding in itself is nowhere near trion's top priority, there are several threads i have seen suggesting this and so far no comment as well as no actions to change it. WoW did it quite effectively and i am sure that it again is something engine related or maybe even too much time involved coding it on the back end to make it worth it.
    I think it was addressed a while ago and it was stated that it would be a huge overhaul that they are not prepared to take anytime soon but the topic keeps coming up (a lot recently). Who knows. It may be a surprise thing for 3.0 or in the works for sometime during 3.0.

  6. #6
    Plane Walker
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    They could for 3.0 if they want to, without huge overhaul. Tier 3 raids are already instanced down to one miniboss and one boss... they could put each weekly loot chance in its own instance by the next tier.
    Mantissa@Greybriar 7/8 raid tiers cleared <Rekt>

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by drabk View Post
    They could for 3.0 if they want to, without huge overhaul. Tier 3 raids are already instanced down to one miniboss and one boss... they could put each weekly loot chance in its own instance by the next tier.
    I don't think you know what massive overhaul means. Not on our side but from a code point of view i don't think they would be able to do it without breaking the game for a week. Chat changes effected the game for a week, i can't imagine what instance changes would do.

  8. #8
    Plane Touched
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexx91 View Post
    I don't think you know what massive overhaul means. Not on our side but from a code point of view i don't think they would be able to do it without breaking the game for a week. Chat changes effected the game for a week, i can't imagine what instance changes would do.
    For a week? probably for a month, or months rather.

    Anyway, for their current engine, they save a group of players to a specific instance, this allows them to ease down on server side processing as well, however, I do not know the specifics in terms of how this actually alleviate server load on memory.

    Instead of having just a single check on instance lock, it has to do 2.

    X for the boss kill, and a hidden number for the specific instance they are currently in/was in prior. Whilst I feel that they might be capable of implementing in this into the current game engine in the near future, we're already developing on a poor engine at it's core.

    Instance resets would be an extreme hassle to fix in it's current condition. And would probably not fixed in the near future.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrydesmart View Post
    For a week? probably for a month, or months rather.

    Anyway, for their current engine, they save a group of players to a specific instance, this allows them to ease down on server side processing as well, however, I do not know the specifics in terms of how this actually alleviate server load on memory.

    Instead of having just a single check on instance lock, it has to do 2.

    X for the boss kill, and a hidden number for the specific instance they are currently in/was in prior. Whilst I feel that they might be capable of implementing in this into the current game engine in the near future, we're already developing on a poor engine at it's core.

    Instance resets would be an extreme hassle to fix in it's current condition. And would probably not fixed in the near future.
    Long story short this is not something that we will see on this engine, WoW is even beginning to have troubles with instances as so much of their content both inside raids and just in quest areas will have multiple instanced areas based on your progress in that quest line. Part of the issue also comes from the astronomically high stats for players and mobs alike that are similarly effecting gameplay. I would really like to see Rift manage to adopt something that does help pugs a bit more because tbh getting saved to a really bad pug group could easily turn players away when they are used to games like wow where that meant you could still join another group if they are at the same point in that raid as you are.

  10. #10
    Plane Walker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexx91 View Post
    I don't think you know what massive overhaul means. Not on our side but from a code point of view i don't think they would be able to do it without breaking the game for a week. Chat changes effected the game for a week, i can't imagine what instance changes would do.
    What does massive overhaul mean to you? Let's pretend the next dungeon has four bosses. Create four instances to house one boss each. The entrances are portals in the overworld, guarded by trash mobs (hey wouldn't it be fun to clear trash cooperatively with other raids on your server? but I digress) Boss 1's instance can be entered freely, he drops loot and a key that lets you enter boss 2's instance, who drops the key to boss 3 and so on. Or lock it by quest progression instead of key items, or maybe invent some better way. Anyway, the players are locked to these small instances as the bosses die, and players can come and go between bosses as long as they have the keys.

    So, the dev team has made one dungeon's worth of assets, and split it over four instances and some overworld, that is indeed marginally more work than just one instance. But it's mostly just more instances, and there's already dozens of those. It's not even more concurrent instances - by the time a raid group has moved to boss B entrance, boss A's zone has hit the soft reset timer and is no longer being instantiated. Each raid group is using one instance's worth of server power just like today. Where's the massive overhaul? It's a design overhaul but not an engine overhaul, and big-number version transitions and new overworlds are a likely time to see design overhaul...
    Mantissa@Greybriar 7/8 raid tiers cleared <Rekt>

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by drabk View Post
    What does massive overhaul mean to you? Let's pretend the next dungeon has four bosses. Create four instances to house one boss each. The entrances are portals in the overworld, guarded by trash mobs (hey wouldn't it be fun to clear trash cooperatively with other raids on your server? but I digress) Boss 1's instance can be entered freely, he drops loot and a key that lets you enter boss 2's instance, who drops the key to boss 3 and so on. Or lock it by quest progression instead of key items, or maybe invent some better way. Anyway, the players are locked to these small instances as the bosses die, and players can come and go between bosses as long as they have the keys.

    So, the dev team has made one dungeon's worth of assets, and split it over four instances and some overworld, that is indeed marginally more work than just one instance. But it's mostly just more instances, and there's already dozens of those. It's not even more concurrent instances - by the time a raid group has moved to boss B entrance, boss A's zone has hit the soft reset timer and is no longer being instantiated. Each raid group is using one instance's worth of server power just like today. Where's the massive overhaul? It's a design overhaul but not an engine overhaul, and big-number version transitions and new overworlds are a likely time to see design overhaul...
    Based on this statement that was a bunch of nonsense i think you misunderstand entirely what the op is asking for. As well Trion can't be bother to fix things like procs don't proc procs because although it limits some aspects of certain specs it is too much work for them and they won't do it.

    I assume you haven't played wow since the ideas in wow are basically what the op is suggesting so i will elaborate to help you understand.

    Kill Kaliban with bad group that can't kill Kyzan, instead of being forced to make a raid that isn't locked and have them start at Kyzan, which obviously doesn't happen, instead you are locked to having killed Kaliban and can join any raid that is after Kaliban or later. If you join a raid that is at Salvarola and accept the lockout you now have skipped your chance at Kyzan until reset of instance lockouts.

    This is the kind of system that unless they decide to make nothing but one boss instances which I feel like only happened here cause they picked old bosses and gave them their own zone for their "Binding".

    An instance lock that locks you to a boss instance of a lock you share with 10 or 20 other people allows for much more variety in gearing yourself and for people coming to the game, cause lets face it a lot of people come from wow and this is what they are accustomed to.

  12. #12
    Plane Walker
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    No, I haven't played WoW in a decade so I don't know how they do things over there anymore. I just described a possible way the devs for Rift could create future raids to be flexible in the way you and OP desire: One instance per boss and sequential instance gating. re-read the "nonsense" above if you need help understanding. We're not going to get this kind of redevelopment for any raid that already exists but we might have it baked into version 3's raids.

  13. #13
    Ascendant
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    How instances work in this game has always been a weak point in my opinion. Locking to a boss is a much better route to go for pugs and for guild runs a like, locks to entire instances are far too limiting.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by drabk View Post
    No, I haven't played WoW in a decade so I don't know how they do things over there anymore. I just described a possible way the devs for Rift could create future raids to be flexible in the way you and OP desire: One instance per boss and sequential instance gating. re-read the "nonsense" above if you need help understanding. We're not going to get this kind of redevelopment for any raid that already exists but we might have it baked into version 3's raids.
    The only reason bosses are instanced in T3 the way they are is cause of some attempt at lore.

    As for whatever it was that you suggested would likely only lead to more lag than this game already has.

    I won't bother with this thread anymore because you are failing to see how your suggestion is not a solution and only would create more of a problem than it would solve.

  15. #15
    Rift Disciple Kinladar's Avatar
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    Not that I know how their particular game engine works, or how automated it is or isn't, but these instance locks are nothing more than columns/rows in a database that allow or deny access to specific content.

    I really doubt that there would be much of a hit on server side performance if they kept per boss instance locks simple as possible. Simplest way would be allow anyone into any instance regardless of lock, after the boss is killed, check current table against kills column(s) to determine if the body/chest should be lootable, if already killed once this reset, leave corpse/chest as unlootable, if no record of kill then allow looting. Little more than that when master loot is used but you get the idea.

    In theory this should be a fairly simple thing to implement, getting the databases restructured and the interfaces adapted would take a bit of time, but the process should be simple enough.

    if they are telling us it's too complicated, then I call BS.
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