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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Rift: State of the Game.

  1. #151
    Ascendant Byaku's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Techie Will View Post
    Which is an issue.

    Are there not enough players committed to the game? Or is the skill "learning curve" to get "good" or half-way decent at a class too high?

    I've said this for a long time. Classes in Rift reward those that want to play on a high level very well, as they should. They do little to reward middle ground players though, which is an issue.

    I'm not asking for there to be slam-face-on-keyboard specs all the time, but there has to be a solution.

    Specs are also not the only thing at play, intense self awareness checks or individual mechanics are an issue I thought we got out of the game after Sicaron.
    That's amazing, because I've never ever in my entire gaming career have played a game that punishes me for playing my class at the top-level with CRIT RNG. So amazing that Tempest even relies on stealing other Tempest Focus Fire, sadly enough this was reported back in 2.0. Look at that number and tell me everything's fine.

    It's so damn frustrating when I could just make a one button macro and if all the CRIT RNG aligns, my DPS would blow everything out of proportion. But, is anything even being done about it? No. How many Developers have the Warriors gone through now?

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hikos View Post
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...=sharing#gid=0

    110 guilds - crucia.

    That perspective. Not everyone reports to your little site you realise.

    Also

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...=sharing#gid=0

    60 guilds regulous.

    Oh and then.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...=sharing#gid=3

    21 guilds Ultane.

    Also even going by your own site:

    http://www.topofrift.com/rankings/de...reaker-bastion

    19 guilds abominous. But gotta get those rose coloured glasses on to push it to 25.

    T3 - oh let's count the guilds killing the minis as "reporting" on T3. We all know only 5 guilds in NA are actually working on those bosses and not just killing the minis - because why not they're a walkover.

    I understand you're probably the biggest fanboy left in the game raive but at least get your facts straight.
    I believe these numbers to be more accurate. AFAIK only 6 or 7 guilds have downed greenscale, and while there are maybe 3 or 4 guilds are currently capable (this is a generous number) it's only greenscale and you can progress and kill him in a shorter period of time than abom.

  3. #153
    Ascendant MoonfireSpam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    Another point that was brought up was that the recent addition of this tier is divisive. No it is not. The recent tier allows faster progression through the previous tier. The pool of people to recruit actually gets larger when the previous tier gets faster.
    The recruitment pool isn't small because people don't have the gear.

    Gear being the divisive factor between who we, the higher end guilds, take and who we deny membership to is a common misunderstanding amongst less progressed raiders... and apparently the company itself.

    Gear is literally a non-factor. What would fill our recruitment pool would be ways to "train" people in the commonly used mechanics in this game's raids. This was originally something the SL expert dungeons did very well, up until when the experts started getting gutted in difficulty. I don't care who made that call from the company's end, I do know that gutting the expert dungeons' difficulty took away the only set of training wheels prospective raiders had before getting tossed into full fledged raids.

    Taking away the gradient of increasingly challenging content is what is shrinking recruiting pools on the high end, not the perceived unavailability of gear.

    If you want to actually increase the recruiting pool for raiding guilds, there needs to be more detailed information available to players. A series of tutorial quests, for example, that explains the core concepts of a soul and how to use them more effectively than randomly binding abilities on your hotkey bar and smashing your face on them would probably go a long way. (Of course, it would actually have to be the core concepts to a soul... and not something your class devs decides to change every other major patch, unless they feel like updating these tutorials as well)

    Teach the players how the game works so they can navigate your challenging content on their own instead of breaking down the walls for them every step of the way, and you'll get your recruitment pool for end game guilds.
    So long, and thanks for all the fish~

  4. #154
    Ascendant meph1111's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    Responding to posts like the OP's is always tough. I felt in general that their heart was in the right place, and that the feedback portion was perfectly acceptable, it was their facts that were wrong. I'm reading the thread because feedback of this nature is important, but I also have to consider how misinformation presented as facts will be taken as truth by a certain percentage of the community. In the end I felt that it was worth responding to, because there were a number of elements that could use some clearing up.

    And of course for that individual, raiding might indeed by "dying," although we'd have to decide what the term actually means. But that's now how the feedback was presented, or what I was responding to. So clarify the facts, and continue to read the feedback. Because customer feedback is ultimately at the heart of what I consider most important in my position.

    The best way to avoid these kinds of situations is to focus on your feelings, because your feelings are what matters. It doesn't matter how much more we are reinvesting into the Dev team, or how much we expand it, if it doesn't feel that way to you folks. Ultimately you'll see the fruits of that reinvestment, for example there's a chunk of quests in 2.7 that were designed by one of the newer members of the team. Either you'll see the results and appreciate them, or maybe it won't be the kind of content you want and you won't appreciate them as much.

    I'm not PR, I'm not here to make folks happy directly. I'm here to bring you news about your favorite game (so you are more educated as to what we are doing) and convey your feelings about what we are doing back to the team in a more organized and formal manner than them sampling your responses. If I do my job well the team has more info to base their decisions off. Then they can make you happy by making the game better than it was already.

    If you aren't happy that's good feedback, but present it in a way that's effective. If you feel like raiding is dying, explain why you feel that way. If you say raiding is dying I'll probably have to disagree with you because factually it's an important and well represented activity in RIFT.

    Similarly you are correct in that quantitative data doesn't represent whys as well as how much. Quantitative data over time however does suggest that a significant amount of folks do enjoy PvP in RIFT to a certain degree beyond just getting drunk on teamspeak. I spend about an hour a day reading posts related to PvP. Talking about what you like or dislike (rather than overall criticism or predictions about why other people may like or dislike something) is something far more actionable on our end. That's the qualitative data that we are looking for from the forums.
    It's not that people "feel" that the raiding scene is dying... I think the numbers speak for themselves. Though be honest, how much time in this game have you spent raiding? Wandering around freemarch on a stream every once in awhile doesn't count.

    I am a die hard rifter, but face the facts, they really screwed up and continue to screw up things that make most raiders wonder what is going on in the minds of the game's designers. Issues that are blantly obvious. For example the itemization which has been a mess and any raider would look at some of the numbers/procs and just wonder if they even give a damn before they push this nonsense to live.

    It seems like you are asking for constructive feedback but anyone who does leave it on the forums here is at risk of having their forum privileges revoked, even when they are giving their opinion. Do you even realize how this effects some of the most dedicated players? They feel betrayed. So say what you want here but some of us know you are really up to behind the scenes so don't try to sugar coat it.

  5. #155
    Rift Chaser Captain Kremmen's Avatar
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    Further to the Op, I am not confident that Rift 3 is even going to happen.

  6. #156
    RIFT Guide Writer Soulshield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meph1111 View Post
    I believe these numbers to be more accurate. AFAIK only 6 or 7 guilds have downed greenscale, and while there are maybe 3 or 4 guilds are currently capable (this is a generous number) it's only greenscale and you can progress and kill him in a shorter period of time than abom.
    Number of Greenscale kills is 15+(2 guilds who posted their kill are not on this list)

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  7. #157
    RIFT Guide Writer NotTrev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    If I see something terrible, I message Ocho and other members of the community team and ask them to review if any rules were broken.
    He said that you "had them given infractions for even the most minor of descent." Not that you gave them infractions. When you send a message to the person in charge of giving in fractions and say "take a look at this", it's clear that you felt there was something wrong with the post.
    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    For us to produce content, it costs money and time.
    This statement, to me, comes across as "If you want something, pay for it." Which, in this specific scenario, has me feeling like you're asking me to pay for the appearance of my T3 armor(the skins you never made). Now, I could be wrong, but isn't the business model Free to Play, not Pay to Play? The monthly sub model(Rift's former model) is one that requests a small amount from every user at certain intervals.

    The F2P model is one that requests nothing from any user, but survives on the moderate, to large(even ridiculous), contributions of a much smaller user-base. In other words, the F2P model is attractive to two demographics, those that can afford to, and enjoy, spending obscene amounts of money on various little bells/whistles/trinkets to keep them happy and occupied in game, and those that are more frugal or even appreciate paying nothing at all/working within the system(farming plat for REX).

    The F2P model isn't supposed to hurt either player types experience with the game. It's supposed to augment it. Now, this comes in the form adding additional ways to enjoy the game. Adding costume sets, adding pets, adding mounts, adding race/faction/hair changes, etc. However, with this latest tier, it's augmented the game in another fashion; in removing the expected armor appearance that was to accompany the expected T3 armor. Seeing two purchasable costume sets being released within the same week, and hearing "If you want something, pay for it", it's easy to see where the focus of the game is and is not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    Please however, do not believe that everyone in RIFT has done the same as you. There are many people who have never fought these dragons - and these encounters are not "just rehashes of what was before" - the few of you old enough to remember know this. You are getting to kill internet dragons with your friends. Pretty damn cool internet dragons.
    The majority of the players that compromise the top leg of guilds, guilds that are able to take part in these encounters, are players that have been playing for some time; either being able to experience the original encounters at 50 or having been to achievement runs since. Reference the forum join dates of those whom you reply to, if you have doubts. No one that has been playing Rift for a month or two is in 620hit gear pushing in on T3, unless their name is Ghetto.

    Also, cool is a subjective description. What you think of as cool, someone else might not, hence this discussion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    Saying that raiding in RIFT is completely dead or on it's last leg is simply a myth - yes some "big name guilds" from the past are no longer as engaged - that does not mean that no one is raiding.
    He said "The raiding scene has died to the point it's non-existant.", meaning, that the competition has dwindled so much so that there is no longer any prestige or thrill to it; not that there is literally not a single guild raiding. There were only two guilds that pressed the issue as soon as servers came up, going outside of their normal raid schedules to attempt to secure bragging rights. Everyone else simply waited until it was their standard schedule.

    Some big name guilds from the past are no longer as engaged? This sounds like you're trying to imply that they're still active and playing, but no longer play as often as they used to. Just so we're on the same page, when players in a raiding guild become less active, to the point that they rarely log in, it becomes troublesome to have the necessary numbers and compositions online at the same time to do things together. When any number of the 20 players needed can't hold a schedule, said guild can't raid, and when said guild can't raid the remaining players that wish to raid leave. This is called a guild dieing.

    The list of guilds that have died since SL launch is pretty huge. Only two of the top 13 guilds to clear FT/EE are still alive. Only four of the top 10 to clear GA are still alive. If I were to list all of the guilds that have died since SL launch, you'd probably ban me for spam. Reference material, if you care to take the time to count.

    Nine days after T3 launch, we see only 13 guilds taken down the first boss of the Tier. Nine days after GA launch you had 40 guilds take down the first boss. Nine days after IG launch you had 29 guilds take down the first boss there. Nine days after PBB launch you had 21 guilds take down the first boss there.

    You can claim these bosses were easier than GS, if you like, but I'm sure we'll all look at him much like we look at Breaker X-1, in a couple of months. When you look at the raw data it is very hard to deny that the number of guilds has drastically declined.

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  8. #158
    Ascendant meph1111's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulshield View Post
    Number of Greenscale kills is 15+(2 guilds who posted their kill are not on this list)

    http://www.topofrift.com/rankings/pr...dings-of-blood
    Sorry, I meant NA guild

  9. #159
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    Lol slumdog (ghetto) ended up in crayons? Never seen someone so lucky with drops. He got 2h from Inyr on his first night with us. Then fully geared by the end of the next week. Still couldn't pull an Inyr crystal to save his life though.

    We spent 2 hours on greenscale and was faced with ******** bugs. And never went back. And more than likely never will.

    When you have high expectations for something, and they can be ruined that quickly it doesn't leave much hope. I'm sure all the other guilds that have quit would more than likely be for the similar reasons
    Last edited by Jordaan; 04-25-2014 at 03:02 AM.

  10. #160
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    Well at least there are still a handful of guilds that made thru today. Voodoo didnt even last thru ID.

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Techie Will View Post
    If the game is so easy, why are there so many players that people proclaim are "baddies"?
    This is not going to be popular, but I'll give you the answer(at least, the answer I believe to be correct).

    It's simple, the environment doesn't foster growth or good habits. Straight from character generation. Instead of constantly being conditioned to preform better you're instead conditioned to suck.

    Mostly, I'm speaking of how you're encouraged to preform your first actions in game. The first thing you hear are instructions on how to control your character. First, S-key to move backwards, A and D to turn your character. These are slow and inefficient compared to typical fps standards(Counterstrike, for instance) that suggest you should strafe left and right with A and D, turning your character your mouse. Also, flicking your camera to the left or right and strafing appropriately is far quicker than holding S, to move in that direction.

    Next, your blinking soul tree button. Presets want to have you blindly following their suggested stat point allocation, which discourages thought in the matter. In fact, when you level you're given a "spend points" button that allocates it automatically, without your skill-tree even showing what it was used on. With diminished attention to the skill tree(and Exp Pots..) it's obvious how and why some players get to max level without realizing exactly how some talents affect certain abilities or how two abilities interact. Additionally, ability tooltips tend to not include the new interactions they've gained via talent points, which can lead to confusion.

    Third, combat. They suggest you initiate via right-click, fail to mention that auto-attacks both do not compromise a large portion of your damage and that if you simply use an ability your auto-attack will begin.. automatically. No mention of tab to more quickly gain that target(nor the mention that Tab selection is different than other games in that you have to aim, to some degree).

    Then there is your ability bar. One bar, 1 through =. Most players can't comfortably reach 6 or even 5 in a timely, and accurate, manner. There is no second bar, no suggestion that you can add a second, third, forth and so on. So this player is stuck with 1-4, possibly 1-6 and will actually click instead of key-pressing 5( or 7) through =. Clicking is not only slower than muscle memory but requires your attention, drawing your field of vision down to the lower half of your screen and possibly causing you to miss fight mechanics. This is fine, initially, if you're level 8 and all you're doing that with is your Water and maybe your out of combat racial ability(to some extent). But it's building bad habits. To compound this, there's no pop up tutorial that tells a new player that they can re-keybind 5 through = to more accessible keys(qertvzxc, F1, F2, etc.) or that you can use modifiers(shift/alt/ctrl) to expand your available keys. And even further, a number of specs/builds(i would venture to say 'most', even) in Rift follow a very familiar pattern. A soul has a standard baseline attack, and then one or more harder hitting abilities on very short cooldowns(storm's fury, vorpal slash too, until you learn to abuse it with procs) that are pretty much intended to be macro'd over the baseline attack(storm slash). Yet, no mention of macros to help condense the abilities on their bar(as intended); their bar that is limited to 4-6 reachable keystrokes until they feel the need to start mouse-clicking.

    Now, I'm sure there are some people that will argue that they keyboard turn, or click, and that they do just fine. I'm sure that's true, but that's not exactly what we're talking about. The issue is that these are bad habits and they are slower and less effective, meaning, if you use these and are doing "just fine" you could be doing "a lot better" if you were not. Basically, you're preforming with a handicap and the only reason you're doing fine, is that you're either a good or above average player. Now, apply these handicaps to a player that already struggles with reaction time or focusing on multiple tasks at once and you have a recipe for disaster.

    Others will argue that these are MMO basics, and I would agree. But the issue is that hardly any MMOs go out of their way to have their players avoid such pitfalls, most even encourage it. And more to the point, this MMO is not doing much to avoid such issues as well. So, as it stands, you'll either have to be an MMO vet who has grown out of such bad habits(or happened to avoid them) in the past or be a very inquisitive new player that enjoys digging at all of the options/settings/keybinds before even really playing the game.

    The presets are more or less fine to get your through decent portion of your leveling, but because the soul system is so wide open and to preform well takes very specific talent builds, I wish they would also do more to promote their rift guide forums in-game, for those that are leveling. What it boils down to is information, or lack there of, in game.

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  12. #162
    RIFT Guide Writer NotTrev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordaan View Post
    Lol slumdog (ghetto) ended up in crayons?
    No, hell no, lol. He's in Jynxed currently(not sure which raid force).

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  13. #163
    Rift Disciple Polyester's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulshield View Post
    Number of Greenscale kills is 15+(2 guilds who posted their kill are not on this list)

    http://www.topofrift.com/rankings/pr...dings-of-blood
    http://www.topofrift.com/servers/gelidra
    i dont think this is accurate for eu at least.
    Heresy guild had first kill on greenscale on gelidra second I believe was Destiny followed by stack on eight apoth isnt even on gelidra

  14. #164
    RIFT Fan Site Operator Raive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polyester View Post
    http://www.topofrift.com/servers/gelidra
    i dont think this is accurate for eu at least.
    Heresy guild had first kill on greenscale on gelidra second I believe was Destiny followed by stack on eight apoth isnt even on gelidra
    If I remember right they are on Typhira....maybe it was them who asked for how the server magically disappeared...>.>

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  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by WarUltima View Post
    If you have ever checked out Defiance its a huge world, and you can tell they spent a lot of resources on it. Yet the whole thing is a ghost town. Defiance isnt the 1st shooter mmo that flopped also. Look up Hellgate: London, and several others. Rarely if ever a shooter mmo being hugely successful. Yet not only Trion decides to make one, they made it cross platform which is arguably even more cost involved.
    It is worth pointing out that Defiance MMO was by and large externally funded. Trion received a rather massive infusion of cash from NBC Universal. Can't be bothered to google the original press release, but from memory it was in the range of 100-150 million dollars.

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