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Thread: RAID-TIER: HIT Requirements

  1. #1
    Ascendant Byaku's Avatar
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    Default RAID-TIER: HIT Requirements

    Please remove this.

    It really does nothing except gate players in being able to play your content. I don't think gating should work like this, gating should be dependent on the difficulty of the encounter and not a stat which almost serves no purpose.

    Health checks to meet the survival requirement, and DPS checks to meet the enrage requirements. These are the only two "stat" which should be involved in gating the players, not trying to get hit every single tier and deal with the bad "RNG" that is HIT related gear.

    This is a huge reason why there is so few competition in the raid scene. Outside of the top 10 guilds, every other guild can't even hope to compete.

    Do I think they have a chance still? Maybe not, but they will at least have a thin chance. Obviously a guild that's been conquering T2 content will have a gear advantage, but shutting the door on every other guild is not the way to go. Don't make your players feel discouraged from raiding simply because they started late and are already 2-300 HIT behind.

    Exclusive Content is bad for your business.


    Thanks.

  2. #2
    Ascendant Techie Will's Avatar
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    So you want people who are completely undergeared to attempt the content and get so frustrated they leave the game?


  3. #3
    Champion of Telara
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    There are a couple points that you made that I disagree with. I will go ahead and touch on those.

    Quote Originally Posted by Byaku View Post
    gating should be dependent on the difficulty of the encounter and not a stat which almost serves no purpose
    Although technically you're right, this isn't the case all the time. Whether or not an encounter is considered "difficult" I would say is more a matter of opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Byaku View Post
    Health checks to meet the survival requirement, and DPS checks to meet the enrage requirements. These are the only two "stat" which should be involved in gating the players
    I agree that health and DPS checks should be required for all encounters, but this is naturally gained via raiding the content before the new content. I feel that the "old" content will die out sooner if this were the case.

    Quote Originally Posted by Byaku View Post
    deal with the bad "RNG" that is HIT related gear.
    I know it's annoying to hear this, but the shop now offers 78 hit items and upgrade paths. Now, of course, not everyone has the stones to purchase them and that's ok. One alternative is to just raid tier 2 content. The issue with your statement here, in my opinion, is you're complaining about RNG but RNG is only bad if you raid a couple times. Of course raiding the content a couple times won't yield your entire raid with 78 hit items.

    One final alternative is to rune your gear for hit. You can gain... 50(?) hit rating from runes alone. There are many bosses that drop hit items, too, not just the final ones.

    Quote Originally Posted by Byaku View Post
    This is a huge reason why there is so few competition in the raid scene.
    I have to completely disagree with you here. In my opinion, the huge reason why there is so few competition is because there are so few guilds left.



    My 2 cents
    Last edited by Ayona; 04-23-2014 at 03:54 PM.

  4. #4
    Ascendant Byaku's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Techie Will View Post
    So you want people who are completely undergeared to attempt the content and get so frustrated they leave the game?
    If they get so frustrated and leave the game because of that then they shouldn't be playing in the first place.


    The point of this thread is mostly referring to those sitting at the 540 HIT Mark, not getting those Ring Drops (Theres one on the store), not getting those Range Weapon Drops (Theres one on the store), not getting that 2nd OH (if applicable), not getting that Neck (no other options but to raid old content).

    I'm not just merely talking about raiding Tier-3 later on, I'm talking about day 1 of release, how many guilds actually attempted the bosses on release date? Hardly any.

    You say we have no guilds yet I see an abundance of them, they merely started far behind the top 10, there is no room to catch up UNLESS you have had an abundance of currency saved up (effectively holding back your raid by not spending them doing previous tier) or you fork out the huge amount of credits.

  5. #5
    Prophet of Telara Fiskerton's Avatar
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    I think the hit problem can be easily solved by putting hit on every gear, but limiting how much a certain tier of gear can give. If you place all t2 gear in a gear set called "T2", you can track how much hit the entire set gives.
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  6. #6
    Soulwalker
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    I can tell you as a returning player from a few years ago, I'm already frustrated after just 3 months back. Its been virtually impossible to get into anything without "link ultimate cheevement! +540 hit"....

    Still going to stick around a bit longer and give it a shot though. Agree that the hit rating is kind of out of control.

  7. #7
    Ascendant Techie Will's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byaku View Post
    If they get so frustrated and leave the game because of that then they shouldn't be playing in the first place.


    The point of this thread is mostly referring to those sitting at the 540 HIT Mark, not getting those Ring Drops (Theres one on the store), not getting those Range Weapon Drops (Theres one on the store), not getting that 2nd OH (if applicable), not getting that Neck (no other options but to raid old content).

    I'm not just merely talking about raiding Tier-3 later on, I'm talking about day 1 of release, how many guilds actually attempted the bosses on release date? Hardly any.

    You say we have no guilds yet I see an abundance of them, they merely started far behind the top 10, there is no room to catch up UNLESS you have had an abundance of currency saved up (effectively holding back your raid by not spending them doing previous tier) or you fork out the huge amount of credits.
    The rings are for ESM from running dungeons, and you can buy "two" technically. One for your class, and the one for the other class that shares your power (rogues/warriors clerics/mages).

    Necks drop off of Eggtenders. Which is honestly not difficult at all, and can easily be PUG'd these days.

    The only thing in your list that is difficult to obtain are the weapons. If you're not in a guild killing Brothers/Proteus/Thrax you're most likely not ready to go into the fray of Tier 3 anyway (since everything in there is tuned above Thrax and closer to Inyr'kta).


  8. #8
    Ascendant Techie Will's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anasurimbor View Post
    I can tell you as a returning player from a few years ago, I'm already frustrated after just 3 months back. Its been virtually impossible to get into anything without "link ultimate cheevement! +540 hit"....

    Still going to stick around a bit longer and give it a shot though. Agree that the hit rating is kind of out of control.
    Find yourself a guild, that'll solve your issue trying to PUG things where they require achievements.


  9. #9
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    I have to agree with Byaku.
    They released T3 content where Greenscale is considerably easier than Inyr'Kta yet it drops T3 relic weapons.

    Trust me give it a few days you will see all those old 3/3 3/5 guild (stuck on Inyrkta) killing Greenscale and getting T3 relic weapons.

    If DEV is to put in relatively easy T3 boss like Greenscale thats easily easier than a few T2 bosses and have it also drop T3 relic weapons, then DEV should let more guilds have easy access to T3 content, at least put out something like a HIT potion so at least they can go in there, work on GS and get some relic T3 weapons.

    For the easiest boss in a tier level to drop the top of the line weapons (T3 relic in this case) is unheard of, in Rift EVER since Rift close beta. So if T3 RELIC WEAPONS are meant to be so much easier to acquire then please let more players have access to it.

  10. #10
    Champion of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by WarUltima View Post
    at least put out something like a HIT potion
    What about runes? You can rune helm and legs for +18 each and weapons for +6 each or +12 on 2h.

    Lets do some math really quick so we know exactly what target audience we're referring to when we say "they're completely screwed out of seeing tier 3 content."

    Lets pretend someone has exactly 520 hit rating (full tier 1 equivalent gear).
    Runes -> +54 hit
    Tier 2 helmet and gloves purchases (23K FES) -> +26 hit
    = 600 hit


    23K FES are incredibly easy to obtain now because you can gain extra with token vials. Dungeons, tier 1 raids, and tier 2 raids all drop FES. Tier 1 raids can be pugged and people can clear all tier 1 content in those pugs. Tier 2 raids usually pug 1/5 and 1/3. So, if you refuse to join a guild for whatever reason, pugs are available for you to farm FES.

    So by this logic and simple math, tier 1 raiders in full 65 hit pieces aren't the target audience. Then who are? People with less than 65 hit items, right? There's absolutely no sense in allowing a fresh level 60 or a half +65 hit level 60 in a tier 3 raid. Ignoring the "skipping content" part, there is no way those players will meet the endurance and DPS checks of either encounter so the argument is invalid for these players. I'm sorry, but you have to work a bit for it to get in and you don't even have to work that hard.
    Last edited by Ayona; 04-23-2014 at 08:31 PM.

  11. #11
    Plane Walker
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    @Byaku

    I get from your post you feel requirements for entering raids should be based on skill not gear, but then you go on to say they should have health and dps requirements as well. Health comes from gear, no matter how good you are you won't just magically get more health. Personal skill will affect DPS, but even if you're the best player in the world you won't meet T3 DPS requirements with T1 gear.

    @WarUltima

    Higher level content will always drop better gear, and the first few bosses will always be easier than the last few. Think tenders vs reggie in terms of difficulty.

    As for "Hit Potions", they do have something like them, called hit runes. Leg+Pants will grant 36, I believe there are some for weapons as well. Considering you can get up to 559 hit even without hit runes, via FES from experts/T1's (helm/gloves/ring) those hit runes will put you up to 595 hit. Get 1 T2 hit drop and you'll be good to go. I think that is plenty of access to T3.
    Last edited by DMoney817; 04-23-2014 at 08:32 PM.
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  12. #12
    Plane Touched
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMoney817 View Post
    @Byaku

    I get from your post you feel requirements for entering raids should be based on skill not gear, but then you go on to say they should have health and dps requirements as well. Health comes from gear, no matter how good you are you won't just magically get more health. Personal skill will affect DPS, but even if you're the best player in the world you won't meet T3 DPS requirements with T1 gear.

    @WarUltima

    Higher level content will always drop better gear, and the first few bosses will always be easier than the last few. Think tenders vs reggie in terms of difficulty.

    As for "Hit Potions", they do have something like them, called hit runes. Leg+Pants will grant 36, I believe there are some for weapons as well. Considering you can get up to 559 hit even without hit runes, via FES from experts/T1's (helm/gloves/ring) those hit runes will put you up to 595 hit. Get 1 T2 hit drop and you'll be good to go. I think that is plenty of access to T3.

    Apart from one small Issue - most t3 gear has lower endurance than t2 gear - yet the bosses do extremely high tank / aoe dmg

  13. #13
    Champion of Telara The Real Viz Shady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WarUltima View Post
    I have to agree with Byaku.
    They released T3 content where Greenscale is considerably easier than Inyr'Kta yet it drops T3 relic weapons.

    Trust me give it a few days you will see all those old 3/3 3/5 guild (stuck on Inyrkta) killing Greenscale and getting T3 relic weapons.

    If DEV is to put in relatively easy T3 boss like Greenscale thats easily easier than a few T2 bosses and have it also drop T3 relic weapons, then DEV should let more guilds have easy access to T3 content, at least put out something like a HIT potion so at least they can go in there, work on GS and get some relic T3 weapons.

    For the easiest boss in a tier level to drop the top of the line weapons (T3 relic in this case) is unheard of, in Rift EVER since Rift close beta. So if T3 RELIC WEAPONS are meant to be so much easier to acquire then please let more players have access to it.
    I have to disagree with Greenscale being easier than Inyr'kta. I'd put him on par with Abom as far as a gear check. Above Abom for a strat check.

    I'd love to see them remove the hit check on T3 for a week, as long as I was watch a 3/3 3/5 guild or two stream it. It'd be a great show. Hell, I'd like to watch the same guild try to do the minis.

  14. #14
    Plane Walker Furyon13's Avatar
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    I guess only way is to nerf t2 so ppl can catch up. T3 is hard so it won't matter anyways. Few guilds are so good hence will always be in front.
    Last edited by Furyon13; 04-23-2014 at 10:58 PM.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Real Viz Shady View Post
    I have to disagree with Greenscale being easier than Inyr'kta. I'd put him on par with Abom as far as a gear check. Above Abom for a strat check.

    I'd love to see them remove the hit check on T3 for a week, as long as I was watch a 3/3 3/5 guild or two stream it. It'd be a great show. Hell, I'd like to watch the same guild try to do the minis.
    Speaking for healing GS is a fair bit easier than Abom, Aky is somewhat similar to abom, but marginally easier in that its slightly more predictable, but harder due to being a significantly longer fight [that said, we dont use a tank heal chloro on aky, puri has to look after both tanks]
    Last edited by CrackaJack; 04-23-2014 at 11:07 PM.

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