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Thread: Low Endurance on Raid level gear?

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    Prophet of Telara Haruchai's Avatar
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    Default Low Endurance on Raid level gear?

    Just wondering if its deliberate or an error but the Empowered DD Conq Breastplate has 86 End, the Desolate Breastplate has 79 End but the Empowered Mythical Ice Scarred Warplate (you couldn't think of a longer name?) has 52 End. That's a big drop, its almost lvl 50 End.

    I have noticed that some of the accessories that drop in iDH also have ridiculously low End except when used to upgrade to the relic items which mostly have decent or normal amount of End.

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    Ascendant Solaxys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haruchai View Post
    Just wondering if its deliberate or an error but the Empowered DD Conq Breastplate has 86 End, the Desolate Breastplate has 79 End but the Empowered Mythical Ice Scarred Warplate (you couldn't think of a longer name?) has 52 End. That's a big drop, its almost lvl 50 End.

    I have noticed that some of the accessories that drop in iDH also have ridiculously low End except when used to upgrade to the relic items which mostly have decent or normal amount of End.
    They used a formula to upgrade all the stats from the old iDH to the new iDH (keeping them relevant to level 60 content).
    I believe Endurance also had the same formula applied, but the base stat wasn't strong enough to up it to the current gear level.

    Nonetheless, I'd look at it as a trade off. The other stats are significantly better, so less endurance could be the caveat.

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    Ascendant SoulshadowDK's Avatar
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    What Solaxys said But to add a little, the original level 50 T1 raid level DH drop had these stats:

    Armor: 1552
    Strength +42
    Dexterity +23
    Endurance +18
    Attack Power +21
    Physical Crit +16

    Sooo... while the endurance may be lower than current content T1 stuff like desolate, it is in line with the old drops ratios, and not really close to the level 50 endurance level.. unless you mean tank gear... level 50 tank gear had about 40 endurance
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    Prophet of Telara Haruchai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solaxys View Post
    They used a formula to upgrade all the stats from the old iDH to the new iDH (keeping them relevant to level 60 content).
    I believe Endurance also had the same formula applied, but the base stat wasn't strong enough to up it to the current gear level.

    Nonetheless, I'd look at it as a trade off. The other stats are significantly better, so less endurance could be the caveat.
    When u compare them the stats actually aren't significantly better they are slightly better (High str but low dex or high dex, low str for eg so slight increase in AP). Its almost not worth the increase because of the lower End.

    I have all three chests stated in my op and the increase is minimal when looked at overall.

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    Prophet of Telara Haruchai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rakasha681 View Post
    What Solaxys said But to add a little, the original level 50 T1 raid level DH drop had these stats:

    Armor: 1552
    Strength +42
    Dexterity +23
    Endurance +18
    Attack Power +21
    Physical Crit +16

    Sooo... while the endurance may be lower than current content T1 stuff like desolate, it is in line with the old drops ratios, and not really close to the level 50 endurance level.. unless you mean tank gear... level 50 tank gear had about 40 endurance
    I hear what you guys are saying and its good info, but I think the raids are vastly different now compared to what was being done back when DH was released. I suppose the gear back then was designed to fit in with other raid drops at the time, to use the same formula now is an error in judgement IMO.
    Last edited by Haruchai; 01-24-2014 at 04:00 PM.

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    Ascendant Solaxys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haruchai View Post
    I hear what you guys are saying and its good info, but I think the raids are vastly different now compared to what was being done back when DH was released. I suppose the gear back then was designed to fit in with other raid drops at the time, to use the same formula now is an error in judgement IMO.
    Then don't use them. Why is this honestly an issue?

  7. #7
    Prophet of Telara Haruchai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solaxys View Post
    Then don't use them. Why is this honestly an issue?
    Discussion is always good and you were being involved and all was good, did your evil ***-wipe alter ego suddenly take over. Don't add anything if you don't care to but don't be a ****. and look at the math if u care to, lets say that DH had gear with 5 End when the norm was 10, a diff of 5 End, multiply both by 4 and you end up with a major difference on an important stat in what is meant to be raid level gear. Grab a calculator or a grown up if you cant figure it out your self.

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    Rift Disciple
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    I've seen a number of threads about the iDH gear, mostly complaints about wrong stats for armor type or lopsided stats.

    The entry level raid of Level 60 with incredibly simple mechanics shouldn't be dropping gear with relic like values without some sort of compromise. The offensive stats on the iDH gear is very good, near the best if not the best for the tier. Low endurance is a decent compromise for this. Off stats being "wrong" for the armor type is a compromise. This isn't gear you should be wearing into later progression fights in T2. It's a great step up from expert gear but you should definitely be looking to get either the 20 man drops or the mark gear for T2 progression.
    Last edited by That Cleric Megara; 01-24-2014 at 05:23 PM.

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    Champion of Telara TheDoomgiver's Avatar
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    i prefer using the iDH ice scarred chest due to its superior stats.
    endurance really shouldnt matter for T1 raids, i have 21k unbuffed, with full venerated essences and cloak, while using the ice scarred chest. using the desolate one would mean an increase of ~400 HP, and i'd lose some offensive stats.

    if you really want that extra endurance, use an enduring vial, put endurance runes on your gear, etc.

    imho, unless you are failing one shot mechanics, like regulos's crash of souls or something similar, i'd advise to keep using the gear that gives most offensive stats.

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    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDoomgiver View Post
    imho, unless you are failing one shot mechanics, like regulos's crash of souls or something similar, i'd advise to keep using the gear that gives most offensive stats.
    This is exactly why low endurance is a concern. Burst damage hurts. Crash of Souls is no longer all that dangerous (IIRC it was nerfed when they revamped Purifier), but some of the other fights in T1 still have some significant burst. Especially the hardmodes, which AFAIK have not been nerfed (aside from Kain). When we did hardmode Gelidra and hardmode Progenitor, anyone with less than 25k health was susceptible to instagibbing.

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    Prophet of Telara Haruchai's Avatar
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    Good responses so far for both pro and con.

    I am just doubtful that the devs had a real look at not just the stats on the armour for example but when combined with some of the accessories that drop, the necks for example have ridiculously low End except when used to upgrade to the relic which has what I would describe as normal End, the End loss when wearing a couple of pieces is not conducive to them being good entry level raid items.

    A little more End on a couple of the iDH items would be great, not a huge amount but enough to put them at the minimum End of the T1 Raid vendor items would be good. Lets be honest they are entry level items and the people that need them the most will probably struggle at first to be spot on with the mechanics and the low End will probably make them look worse than they are when they are dying not to big mistakes but small ones that most of the better geared peoples gear would just shrug off.
    Last edited by Haruchai; 01-24-2014 at 11:24 PM.

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    Prophet of Telara Frailaq's Avatar
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    It's almost as though someone just ran all the old DH gear through an "upgrade" machine that just spat out a bunch of IDH gear rather than having someone pick through each piece and verify that an appropriate amount of each stat had been added to each item....
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    Champion of Telara TheDoomgiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frailaq View Post
    It's almost as though someone just ran all the old DH gear through an "upgrade" machine that just spat out a bunch of IDH gear rather than having someone pick through each piece and verify that an appropriate amount of each stat had been added to each item....
    please dont bring back memories of the dex heavy plate helm. please.
    and on that track, almost all iDH items are heavy on crit rating (NOT crit power, crit rating, or, spell crit hit, for casters and physical crit, for the others)

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    Prophet of Telara Seranov's Avatar
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    IDH gear is TDQ level gear. Calling it "raid level" gear is disingenuous, because it's hardly a raid. More like a 10 man dungeon, really.

    Still, the IDH chest is hands-down better than Desolate AND the Dendrome chest, and a loss of ~20-30 endurance on one piece of gear is unlikely to kill a DPS Warrior with over 20k HP in any T1 fight. If you're doing hardmodes, you're likely actually geared to do the hardmodes, which means the lost endurance is still unimportant.

    The other option is just to run Paralord or Templord, and rock 25k+ HP with some raid buffs.
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  15. #15
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    If anything, IDH gear is overpowered for what the dungeon is, which is essentially a glorified expert. There are virtually no mechanics to any of these fights making it derp proof.

    For mage, IDH gear is BiS for T1 equipment for every single slot, even beating out relic armor. The only downside is the lack of hps which may or may not be important for any particular fight. Considering how rediculously easy this dungeon is, being able to get essentially relic level armor out of it is a giant win if you ask me.

    For those few fights that require more hps for aoes, it's not hard to stock up on endurance serums, or renewing seeds. Or better yet, don't runebreak your other FT/EE gear and save that for when you actually need more hps.

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