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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Daglar, Regarding Master Modes...

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    Default Daglar, Regarding Master Modes...

    Saw on the livestream that you addressed this, you mentioned that they weren't that popular.

    Again as with some other content you need to look at what was implemented.. You had two master modes, one which was a 11 boss instance. Of course people were miffed about having to do that. The only other master mode was Darkening Deeps and I never saw people complain about doing that and I know that one was run quite a lot. Heck so was Caduceus. its just that it took so very long.

    The second piece of this puzzle was the rewards. A lot of people felt the rewards were to little compared to say raid rifts. That's a pretty fair complaint I'd say. The gear should have been just a bit below the 10 man raid tier equivalent.

    The real reason I think for doing master modes is to having challenging small group content. Its a lot easier to grab 5 people than it is 10 or 20. I personally never had an issue with Master Mode Caduceus because I regarded it as like a 5 man raid. I really enjoyed it. But I could definitely see why people resented it. However I think there is a lack of challenging small group content and I'd like to see more of that. I never really said much about it before because of how stretched thin the team is. But now with F2P seemingly doing so well I hope you will have the resources now to allocate to something like this. At the very least I'd be happy if any new dungeons we get before the next expansion ship with master AND expert modes.
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    RIFT Guide Writer intrinsc's Avatar
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    I really enjoyed MM DD and regard Master Mode scarn as one of the most fun fights in the game at the time with the gear at the time. I always liked how hard that fight was in original expert tuning, so seeing it in its essence again was refreshing.
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    I had a lot of fun in MMDD myself as well. However, the percentage of max level people that used the content didn't really justify the development time.

    It's something we could revisit at some point in the future, but for right now, it is not a high priority.

    ~Daglar

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    Ascendant Credo's Avatar
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    I loved both Master Mode dungeons! MMCR was like a 5 man raid
    Even free cost too much now

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    I had a lot of fun in MMDD myself as well. However, the percentage of max level people that used the content didn't really justify the development time.

    It's something we could revisit at some point in the future, but for right now, it is not a high priority.

    ~Daglar
    That's good enough for me. As I'm hopeful that the cash influx from F2P will lead to some of the lower priority stuff getting worked on.

    What happened with Master Mode DSM though? Wasn't that largely finished? It was a bit buggy and I think maybe one boss wasn't there (that was listed in the achievement) from what I can recall, was there more you wanted to do and weren't able to get done or was it something you just weren't happy with as it was?
    Last edited by Khelendross; 06-18-2013 at 08:43 AM.
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    RIFT Guide Writer intrinsc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khelendross View Post
    That's good enough for me. As I'm hopeful that the cash influx from F2P will lead to some of the lower priority stuff getting worked on.

    What happened with Master Mode DSM though? Wasn't that largely finished? It was a bit buggy and I think maybe one boss wasn't there (that was listed in the achievement) from what I can recall, was there more you wanted to do and weren't able to get done or was it something you just weren't happy with as it was?
    Oh, man, MM DSM was so good when I went in there on PTS with the gear we had at the time. Our healer at the time, Kogga, said he had not felt that challenged in months and was refreshing healing Bouldergut solo.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    I had a lot of fun in MMDD myself as well. However, the percentage of max level people that used the content didn't really justify the development time.

    It's something we could revisit at some point in the future, but for right now, it is not a high priority.

    ~Daglar
    It really became a chore once you guys added MMCR and had it give infernal marks at ID release, which made a lot of players felt like they were forced into a long *** 11-boss dungeon to not delay the acquisition of their set pieces.

    Also, the length of the dungeon meant you better get your A-team together for it. Running with our top team gave fast runs (around 40-60 mins or so) while running with randoms could extend it into a whole-evening activity and made you never want to go there again.

    And last, the loot drops weren't interesting for anyone who had the gear to run it at a nice speed. Having something worth hunting in those dungeons would have certainly been a nice carrot to interest more people into it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Khelendross View Post
    What happened with Master Mode DSM though? Wasn't that largely finished? It was a bit buggy and I think maybe one boss wasn't there (that was listed in the achievement) from what I can recall, was there more you wanted to do and weren't able to get done or was it something you just weren't happy with as it was?
    My understanding was that they stopped work on DSM because the other master modes weren't very popular, and decided that time would be better spent elsewhere.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    I had a lot of fun in MMDD myself as well. However, the percentage of max level people that used the content didn't really justify the development time.

    It's something we could revisit at some point in the future, but for right now, it is not a high priority.

    ~Daglar
    I for one hope that you do find the time. Even only having two of them, it was one of the most enjoyable components of the game other than raiding before SL, and much easier to coordinate.
    Last edited by TheGrinnz; 06-18-2013 at 11:12 AM.

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    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGrinnz View Post
    I for one hope that you do find the time. Even only having two of them, it was one of the most enjoyable components of the game other than raiding before SL, and much easier to coordinate.
    Not everyone felt that way, unfortunately. I hated Master Modes-- you needed to do them so often that it was often difficult to get a guild group, which meant that people were forced to PUG them.

    Ultimately, the problem was that Master Modes didn't really have a target audience. The hardcore raiders looking for a challenge outgeared them so much that the dungeons were a pushover, and the fact that they gave raid marks meant that they had to run them ad nauseum. More casual players couldn't handle master modes without overgearing them, at which point they no longer needed the item drops at all.

    To be sure, part of the problem was that you had to do both MMs on a 3-day lockout (I think it was 3 days, anyways). If it had been a weekly quest that had you do a single Master Mode, it would have been less of a problem, but even then, you're talking about a hefty chunk of development time for something with very limited appeal.

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    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    Not everyone felt that way, unfortunately. I hated Master Modes-- you needed to do them so often that it was often difficult to get a guild group, which meant that people were forced to PUG them.

    Ultimately, the problem was that Master Modes didn't really have a target audience. The hardcore raiders looking for a challenge outgeared them so much that the dungeons were a pushover, and the fact that they gave raid marks meant that they had to run them ad nauseum. More casual players couldn't handle master modes without overgearing them, at which point they no longer needed the item drops at all.

    To be sure, part of the problem was that you had to do both MMs on a 3-day lockout (I think it was 3 days, anyways). If it had been a weekly quest that had you do a single Master Mode, it would have been less of a problem, but even then, you're talking about a hefty chunk of development time for something with very limited appeal.
    If you are looking at them solely as a way to get raid marks sure. I looked at them as a more challenging dungeon/raid hybrid that could be done at most every 3-4 days. We generally did not have a problem getting people together for it once there were a few people that could lead the runs effectively.
    Last edited by TheGrinnz; 06-18-2013 at 11:27 AM.

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    MMs were great for casual players...
    Even free cost too much now

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    I remember enjoying MDD, but I hated CR anything and it was kind of grueling to go do them for a reward that was almost too necessary in helping you gear up fast.

    That said, I can see why their appeal was not high - not large enough to accommodate a raid team and not easy enough to accommodate pugs. The worst of both worlds.

    I'm not sure there's a way to make Master Modes more appealing without losing the essence of what makes them 5-man Master Modes.

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    The issue with MMs was by and large the rewards.

    The raiders felt they had to do it to keep up with collecting marks, so some resented it but still did it to keep up.

    The non-raiders felt it wasn't sufficient to justify the time/difficulty of the content.

    And then there's the part where the LFG system didn't allow for queuing of MMs, which probably contributed heavily to the fact that the content was only used by a small portion of max leveled characters.

    The sweet spot would be to find rewards useful to everyone (Infinity Stones / Dungeon Marks / Exp crystals / rep tokens? ... or heck, a random deeps depot chest) but aren't required.

    I liked running them, and did them nearly every 3 days even though I was well past the point where I needed marks (spent a few hundred of them back in the day for wardrobe pieces)

    ... but it was kinda difficult finding people to run them.
    So long, and thanks for all the fish~

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    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoonfireSpam View Post
    The sweet spot would be to find rewards useful to everyone (Infinity Stones / Dungeon Marks / Exp crystals / rep tokens? ... or heck, a random deeps depot chest) but aren't required.
    Add a weekly quest for doing a Master Mode that rewards a Coruscating Whatever-it's-called.

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