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Thread: Put Endurance on Tank Trinkets or Get Rid of Them Entirely

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    RIFT Fan Site Operator Dunharrow's Avatar
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    Default Put Endurance on Tank Trinkets or Get Rid of Them Entirely

    Keep seeing these tank trinkets dropping anywhere from Experts to Crucia. They are all terrible. Every. Single. One.

    Tanks need 1 stat: Endurance. None of them have even a pinch. Expert trinkets should have 70 Endurance and Raid trinkets should have 100. Otherwise, they really are just bait to trick bads into doing it wrong.

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    RIFT Guide Writer Soulshield's Avatar
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    Default Don`t worry

    Christmas will be earlier this year ;)
    If you don`t want to wait take cq trinket with 87 end.

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    Ascendant Primalthirst's Avatar
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    The on-use 27k Absorb trinket could actually be very powerful if tanks didn't already have more CDs than they need and it had a decent CD.
    Nope.

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    Telaran
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    Well you have the Absorb trinket from SbP that is good for "new tanks".

    After that you can get CQ one
    And if you are too lazy for that, you can get the Ridgerunner rep trinket after 1-2h of KR warfront.

    The only thing I don't agree with and never will is, a PVP trinket SHOULD NOT be BiS for all PVE specs (cq trinket).
    Last edited by RykiaKarona; 04-11-2013 at 11:27 PM.

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    Prophet of Telara Lewin's Avatar
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    The on block one wouldn't be horrible if the proc rate wasn't garbage (something like one proc per minute against one mob) but it would have to proc like every other hit for it to be worthwhile.
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    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    I sent a PM to Josh York about this a few weeks ago. Guess I'll repost it here, since it's relevant.

    Are there any plans to make the tier 2 PvE tanking trinkets more appealing?

    In chocolate Rift and tier 1 of Storm Legion, every tanking trinket has had a proc and nothing else. (Or, in a couple of cases, an on-use effect). In and of itself, that's fine. The problem is that the PvP trinkets have endurance on them.

    Raid bosses tend to hit for a third to half of a tank's health pool, and they often have special attacks that are capable of bursting a tank down in less than three seconds. Tanks need to be able to survive these attacks, and that means that anything that's a consistent boost to survivability is vastly superior to unreliable procs. So when you're comparing an absorb shield that might not be up when you need it to a constant endurance boost that gives you more padding for those damage spikes, the endurance wins out every time. It's not even close. In fact, even if a trinket proc made you completely immune to damage, if there's a chance it's not up for that attack, then it's not worth using.

    This means that the current tank trinkets are a waste of loot table space. Obviously, that's bad, but there are a few easy ways to improve them.

    The most obvious answer is to add endurance to them in addition to the procs-- at minimum, this would need to match the endurance on the Conquest trinkets, but you could even bump it a bit higher and it probably wouldn't cause any issues-- after all, tanking trinket procs trigger off of blocking and deflecting, so there's no risk of DPS using them, and in PvP, people tend to have enough hit that they won't really proc there anyways (meaning that the PvP trinket would remain the best trinket for PvP, as it should be). A different reliable stat, like armor or resistance, would also work, although if you go that route, you'd need to do the math to make sure it's at least as much of an effective health boost.

    A second option is to add "trinket whetstones" that only work on PvE trinkets (sort of the opposite of the Mercenary consumables that can be purchased with favor and only work on PvP gear). These would give boosts to core stats depending on which one you use (dexterity, endurance, strength, etc). The upside to this is that it also makes PvE DPS and healing trinkets more desirable, but the downside is that you need to figure out how people would get these whetstones. Trinket runes would also work, I guess.

    The last option is to just make the PvP trinkets not give endurance, and crank up the valor on them to compensate PvPers. I don't really like this solution, though-- I don't mind the fact that the PvP trinkets are good for PvE, I just think it's bad for them to be the best for PvE.

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    RIFT Guide Writer Soulshield's Avatar
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    There are solutions on the way for PVE-trinkets. Just wait.

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    RIFT Fan Site Operator Dunharrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulshield View Post
    There are solutions on the way for PVE-trinkets. Just wait.
    Pretends to have inside information. Doesn't give source or details.

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    Ascendant Primalthirst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunharrow View Post
    Pretends to have inside information. Doesn't give source or details.
    Sources and specifics are overrated. The best stuff comes through back-channels and uses neither of these things. But you don't hear about that stuff on the forums, so....

    Source and/or Specifics please
    Nope.

  11. #11
    RIFT Guide Writer Soulshield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primalthirst View Post
    Sources and specifics are overrated. The best stuff comes through back-channels and uses neither of these things. But you don't hear about that stuff on the forums, so....

    Source and/or Specifics please
    I will not post PMs from devs, but got a response from Daglar.
    Just want to reduce the useless discussions(QQ and Flame) on issues they are working on.
    Sugesstions are always good. If they dump their current idea they will look for a different way.

    For example my own suggestion was to alternate cq trinket to give it a own "under slot" to equip a pve trinket with a proc, but losing it`s original proc(cq trinket)....so you gain stats through conquest and get a nice proc from your pve-trinket.
    Last edited by Soulshield; 04-12-2013 at 06:43 AM.

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    I estimate that if there were trinkets as good as what you can get through Conquest then the amount of players doing Conquest would drop dramatically.

    My theory as well is that (for whatever reason) the people incharge at Trion wouldn't see this as a desirable outcome.



    Unfortunately it's also my guess that if good trinkets were introduced into PVE then it would only be because Trion have found some other way to make Conquest relevant to PVE, which means ultimately that the percieved issue will still exist, it will just be some other slot, or some other bonus that some people will have because they do Conquest while others won't.
    Last edited by Malark; 04-12-2013 at 09:10 AM.

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    Ascendant MoonfireSpam's Avatar
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    The shield-on-block type trinkets are only useful if there's a good number of things dealing physical attacks to you... which you'd only see in a trash pack, or 5 mans. Not ideal for a single boss who may never proc a single deflect, but its got its uses.

    I would argue that the shield of static wind, 24k 50% absorb on a 1 min cd, is far more useful than the CQ trinket, at least on the high end.

    Nobody should be dying to attrition damage. If you are, then its a healer issue.

    The biggest argument FOR endurance above all other tanking stats is that it allows you to better survive big bursty spike damage from bosses. Those types of attacks tends to be predictable and far from constant. And I would go so far as to argue that the shielding is far better than an extra constant ~2k hp from the cq trinket.

    It -gives- you an extra CD on a one minute cooldown. Sure, its only about 1/3rd of your tank's hp. But seriously. Extra CD. Think about it.

    With the CQ trinket, I sit at 66300 hp self buffed. Without I'm at 64000ish. I'd honestly take the extra on-demand 24k hp shield once per minute over a passive 2k hp. Especially for bosses that gives you plentiful warning on its spike attacks.
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  14. #14
    Prophet of Telara cwharland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoonfireSpam View Post
    The shield-on-block type trinkets are only useful if there's a good number of things dealing physical attacks to you... which you'd only see in a trash pack, or 5 mans. Not ideal for a single boss who may never proc a single deflect, but its got its uses.
    wtb pre-nerf way of wind from back in the day

    Quote Originally Posted by MoonfireSpam View Post
    I would argue that the shield of static wind, 24k 50% absorb on a 1 min cd, is far more useful than the CQ trinket, at least on the high end.
    I tend to agree here. The amount of unmitigated large hits you take in SL is impressive. Having another CD for one on top of all the ones you have through spec is pretty clutch.

    Quote Originally Posted by MoonfireSpam View Post
    Nobody should be dying to attrition damage. If you are, then its a healer issue.
    Or people with 20% block but 70k hp that don't understand the balance between dmg reduction and hit point pool

    Quote Originally Posted by MoonfireSpam View Post
    The biggest argument FOR endurance above all other tanking stats is that it allows you to better survive big bursty spike damage from bosses. Those types of attacks tends to be predictable and far from constant. And I would go so far as to argue that the shielding is far better than an extra constant ~2k hp from the cq trinket.
    Same page again. If you are past the one shot point you can stop "concentrating" on hp. Shielding and mitigation are far better in the long run particularly when it comes to steady streams of damage with intermittent large hits (HM gelidra anyone?). Also, think of your healer (most likely a chloro). They thrive on constant high throughput HPS with 3 or so spike heals. If you work to reduce your incoming DPS they can keep you up with simple VL spam and an occasional bloom and the only way to achieve this is through mitigation/shielding. Getting more HP but taking the same amount of incoming DPS does not make healing you easier it just gives you more time before you die. If you want to cut a healer, take less damage don't stack HP.

    Quote Originally Posted by MoonfireSpam View Post
    With the CQ trinket, I sit at 66300 hp self buffed. Without I'm at 64000ish. I'd honestly take the extra on-demand 24k hp shield once per minute over a passive 2k hp. Especially for bosses that gives you plentiful warning on its spike attacks.
    People also forget that with a defiler you are pretty much 70k all the time so the amount the FG stacks add to your HP eclipses the benefit of CQ if you are at soft cap on block/deflect. The CDs on the tanking trinkets should be shorter (some, not all) but I like the fact that you can get a piece of gear that can enhance your active play rather than passively add to your survival.
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    Rift Disciple Gumbercubes's Avatar
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    If you fix the tanking trinkets you would need to fix the DPS/Healing trinkets which are all just as bad when compared to the conquest/ridgerunner trinket, which I don't think they are going to do. The dropped trinkets are pure loot table fillers, only there to make it less likely we get the drops people actually want (like the BiS capes).

    Trion wants people to do conquest (conquest somehow manages to be even less fun if there are fewer people doing it) and one way to do it is making the BiS trinket the reward. If they want to keep encouraging people to do conquest while making proc trinkets at least semi-useful, just give us 2 trinket slots, one for stats and one for procs. -oops already suggested above, thank you reading comprehension skills
    Last edited by Gumbercubes; 04-12-2013 at 01:41 PM.
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