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Thread: Expectations In Experts?

  1. #1
    Rift Disciple
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    Default Expectations In Experts?

    Hello!

    I have been a level 60 for a while now but was never able to do any of the experts because I barely had the computer to run the Volan events without lagging out so much, so I pretty much sat the experts out as I worked around to getting a better computer that could handle the game. Earlier this week I received my new gaming computer and it works like a beast with the game. Now that I can enjoy the content without lagging out, I'm getting ready to do the experts so I can gear up and hopefully raid.

    My question though is what are the expectations from the other group members in the dungeon? The SL experts actually have mechanics unlike old world content where you just basically burned the bosses down. What should I expect from the dungeon groups and most importantly, as I am reading the strats to the experts, how much challenging are they from old world content?

    I know this sounds really noobish to ask but I'm curious to know. Thank you for your time

  2. #2
    Soulwalker
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    If all you've been doing has been world content then you might be geared enough for raids by now. The expert marks/dungeon gear is on par with Infinity Stone items.

    If you're looking for guides on dungeons I direct you to DaPhat Dungeons, and Rift Scene Dungeons. Im sure there are other similar sites out there.

    Visit those guides to get a general grasp on what awaits you behind the ominous Expert LFG button. But these guides do not substitute actual experience. So make sure that you let your group become aware that it would be your first time in the dungeon, they will then either ignore what you said or take a minute or two to explain before trash and boss fights.

    These dungeons are "shorter" than Classic Rift with less trash and bosses are closer together. And only the final boss will have a "chance" to drop an epic piece, everything else is a blue, so don't get your hopes up on finding all your upgrades in a couple runs.

    Que for the role you feel most comfortable with and have confidence you can do, otherwise join as dps if you are not too keen. People are geared enough by now to pick up any slack you may drop which is helpful when you want to pay more attention to mechanics as to not burn your healer's battle res (but do not ignore the fight they still need your dps!).

    My personal advice is to pay special attention to boss mechanics since nearly everything other than "Attack the Tank" that a boss does in Storm Legion will result in
    1. Party Wipe or 2. Single Player One Shot or 3. Fight will Never End.

    I bid you good luck in your adventures and a hope for empathetic group members to show you the ropes.
    Last edited by Discuss; 04-05-2013 at 08:11 AM.

  3. #3
    Soulwalker
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    Also the dungeons themselves are not particularly challenging (especially after some of the nerfs) once you have a general idea on how the fight works, the challenge is more with the group and how people handle a wipe (regardless of RNG always @healer or group mechanic failure). Groups can turn sour with people mad throwing insults across the room or people can be positive about it.

    And if you want to hunt down specific items to upgrade with, here is a Storm Legion Loot Table you can use for a reference.
    Last edited by Discuss; 04-05-2013 at 08:20 AM.

  4. #4
    Prophet of Telara Shaidar Haran's Avatar
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    If you are support always have a good support healing build available. New Tanks or New Healers may ask for this if they cannot keep up, but be sure to have a pure dps spec also as many healers do not require support heals anymore.

    If you are a healer, run a spec that has a group cleanse. SL has focused on group cleanses alot. Individual instant spot heals and quick group heals are common needs. It usually goes, either the tank is taking big dmg or the group needs cleansed and healed. Of course, you have to take into account the dps failing at avoiding stuff.

    Single Target Dps seems to be about 3k+, with the better ones being 9k -ish and an average player already expert geared around 6-7k. If you are DPS, have an interrupt. Melee is viable but not on all bosses, so have a ranged spec.

    Tanks need to start out with about 40k health (estimation), have an interrupt and know how to hold aggro, turn cleaving mobs away from group, use there Damage reduction CDs properly, and have at least 1 ST force taunt and 1 AE force taunt. Boss placement on some fights is paramount as it is part of the mechanic.

    Expect to be moving.. alot on most boss fights. There are a plethora of new mechanics added such as adds that chase you non-stop, adds that if they see you, stun you and explode on you, hard hitting trash and new items you pick up and use from the zone.

    Avoid Reds, Hug Greens and purples. If a mob pushes you away from him, run into him. If a mob pulls you into him, Get away from him.

    All in all, coming from an expert geared player, experts are still challenging and somewhat fun. If you get raid geared players they can make it easier and quicker, but you still need to do the mechanics and avoid the bad stuff or gear won't matter.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaidar Haran View Post

    Single Target Dps seems to be about 3k+, with the better ones being 9k -ish and an average player already expert geared around 6-7k. If you are DPS, have an interrupt. Melee is viable but not on all bosses, so have a ranged spec.
    I agree with most of your points, but this one is a bit off the mark. First off, I would recommend always running new dungeons as a DPS. It's just easier, less stressful and there's less expected of you. I agree with the ranged spec spec advice. All fights in experts can be done as melee (I do them all as melee anyway), but you definitely need to know the fights first.

    That said, you should aim to be higher than 3k DPS. At level 52, my cleric in level 50 gear was pulling 3.5-4k DPS in normal dungeons. If you go into an expert pulling 3k, some people might get angry enough to vote kick you. Even if they don't vote kick you, you're not exactly pulling your weight at 3k DPS. 5-6k DPS is a reasonable range to expect for an entry level player, so aim for that. Practice on a dummy before doing your dungeon. Make sure you can hit 6-7k on a dummy where there are no mechanics and then you should be good for a dungeon.

    I just recently leveled an alt cleric and gave them a few crafted pieces when they hit 60 (still had mid 50 quest reward items mostly) and was able to hit 10k on the dummy and 8-9k in actual dungeon fights. I say that only to say that it's possible to put up respectable numbers without the best gear. Just know your specs and your rotation and gear doesn't matter that much.
    No Guild ~ 4/4 GA - 4/4 HM's - 5/5 EE - 4/4 FT - 4/4 ToDQ ~ Greybriar
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  6. #6
    Telaran SuddleD's Avatar
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    Hehe, yeah try for more than 3K DPS please....

  7. #7
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaidar Haran View Post
    Single Target Dps seems to be about 3k+, with the better ones being 9k -ish and an average player already expert geared around 6-7k.
    3k DPS is about the point where I'd seriously consider votekicking someone. 5-6k is passable, I guess, but it's easy for competent players to push higher than that, even without being expert geared.

  8. #8
    Plane Touched Kerri's Avatar
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    Sorry, Off Topic but:

    I keep seeing DPS numbers posted with no mention of where they are getting these numbers. I thought that the different meters you can download all ended up with different numbers based on different methods of calculation?(no idea where I saw that) Is there a general standard version everyone is using? Or are they just not that different?
    Last edited by Kerri; 04-05-2013 at 04:55 PM.

  9. #9
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    There shouldn't be any differences unless one of them is slightly slower at detecting when combat starts and/or ends. (And even then, the difference would be minor).

    DPS is just damage per second. There's really only one way to calculate it, and that's damage/time.
    Last edited by Muspel; 04-05-2013 at 05:38 PM.

  10. #10
    Ascendant Primalthirst's Avatar
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    Don't stress too much, simply tell people it's your first time. If you don't know what to do then it's their fault for not explaining.
    Nope.

  11. #11
    Prophet of Telara Shaidar Haran's Avatar
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    Unfortunately, the 3k DPS mark is seen quite often by me while running experts everyday on 4 toons.

    This does not indicate 3k DPS on boss fights alone, this is to indicate trash pulls and everything else. Compound that with new people not perfecting roles and just wanting to get in there, along with them meeting minimum requirements and yes 3k ST dps is quite foreseeable.

    New people and less than stellar raiders/group/team players can be more focused on mechanics and not dying then dps'ing and this lowers dps.

    Plainly put, there are tons of reasons why people can only do 3k dps in an expert. Ultimately, you have to look at the player and consider if they are a bot/box or just new. So please, if you play RIFT everyday and gear yourself up to be the best team player you can be, remember not everyone does, but they do want to try. This is what I ask myself in experts everyday before I start complaining.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amary View Post
    There's typically no warning for unexpected crashes.

  12. #12
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaidar Haran View Post
    Unfortunately, the 3k DPS mark is seen quite often by me while running experts everyday on 4 toons.

    This does not indicate 3k DPS on boss fights alone, this is to indicate trash pulls and everything else. Compound that with new people not perfecting roles and just wanting to get in there, along with them meeting minimum requirements and yes 3k ST dps is quite foreseeable.

    New people and less than stellar raiders/group/team players can be more focused on mechanics and not dying then dps'ing and this lowers dps.

    Plainly put, there are tons of reasons why people can only do 3k dps in an expert. Ultimately, you have to look at the player and consider if they are a bot/box or just new. So please, if you play RIFT everyday and gear yourself up to be the best team player you can be, remember not everyone does, but they do want to try. This is what I ask myself in experts everyday before I start complaining.
    I expect people to pull their own weight in an expert. This doesn't mean that they have to play perfectly or even optimally. What it does mean is that they should play well enough that if everyone played the way they did, the group would be capable of clearing the instance.

    3k DPS is low enough to cause wipes on a fair number of bosses. For instance, if everyone were that low on the last boss of SBP, you would be unable to kill the crystals fast enough. Similarly, you'd get add spawns on the last boss of Unhallowed Boneforge, or have to deal with way too many 4-wave depth charges on Emphalea.

  13. #13
    Shadowlander
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    How is it even possible to do 3k dps?
    A rogue spamming swift shot does more dps, mages can play elementalist, summon pet and do nothing the rest of the fight.
    In one of my last experts was an inq spamming waterjet, i said he should stop doing this. He said something was wrong with his macro. Then he spammed BoD all the time...

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antora View Post
    How is it even possible to do 3k dps?
    A rogue spamming swift shot does more dps, mages can play elementalist, summon pet and do nothing the rest of the fight.
    In one of my last experts was an inq spamming waterjet, i said he should stop doing this. He said something was wrong with his macro. Then he spammed BoD all the time...
    Yeah this is always my question. Even if you just spam the main spam skill and nothing else, you should do like 4k DPS.
    No Guild ~ 4/4 GA - 4/4 HM's - 5/5 EE - 4/4 FT - 4/4 ToDQ ~ Greybriar
    Zefu - Warrior
    Zadozex - Cleric [alt]

  15. #15
    Plane Walker merder's Avatar
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    Tbh, ppl are pretty understanding if its your first time there. They're 5 mans. You're gonna run across your occasional @sshole. As far as dps, there's no reason that you have the hit needed to do experts, and not be able to do over 4k by default.

    Regardless, enjoy the game, and if need be put your own 5 man grp together.

    And tell them to practice their "life" rotation if they're complaining that much about low dps
    Formerly Manwitch.... 4/4 FT 5/5 EE 3/4 GA

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