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Thread: The Twins

  1. #1
    Plane Touched
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    Default The Twins

    Greetings,
    we have started our first tries on the Twins.

    To the right side everything seems ok but to the left side (blue twin) the tanks being one shotted at about 80%-85% of boss life. They get sometimes even 90k damage.

    Facts :

    1. They Yellow/Blue buffs, never go over 1. We are aware of this tactic and dealing with it
    2. The IRE that is a tank switch mechanic is correctly changed by second tank by taunt.

    I'm using KBM. I saw that the IRE does not come so regurarly. It came about 85% - we changed tanking, and the twin one shotted the new tank. THen it came back to me and 1shotted me as well.

    Are we missing some tactic part ???

    I'd appreciate some help.

    REgards,
    Simos.

  2. #2
    Prophet of Telara Lewin's Avatar
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    If you are 100% sure its not an issue with ire then it is probably the blazing wrath temp buff that the mobs get periodically, big damage increase for about 15 seconds, even with that you really shouldn't be getting 1 shotted unless you are way undergeared,.the mob has more stacks, or they have the buff they get when they are too close also. I would recomend running a defiler if you aren't already and using CDs, either tank or healer, when it is up. After the first one they alternate which one gets it every minute or so for the rest of the fight.
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  3. #3
    Rift Chaser
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    Sounds like tank swap being done incorrectly.
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  4. #4
    Plane Walker Gnot's Avatar
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    Default

    I am also guessing it's the tank swap. Note that you often need to wait 1-2 seconds before taunting, because the debuff can be on both tanks for that amount of time. The tank taunting needs to be 100% sure his own debuff is gone before taunting.
    To my knowledge there is no other mechanic that can deal that amount of dmg.

  5. #5
    Sword of Telara
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    Take the two tanks on the "right" side and put them on the left. See if the problem persists. I suspect you'll find the "problem" just switched sides.

  6. #6
    Prophet of Telara cwharland's Avatar
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    Both mobs do not cast Ire at the same time. So if both sides are swapping when one boss casts ire on his tank then your other side is getting ire and the tanks are getting exploded. The right side casts it first then the left a few moments later.
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  7. #7
    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
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    That much damage is definitely the tank swap. Each tank needs to watch their own debuff. If you swap too early then the new tank will get the debuff, and you will need to swap back. The debuff gives you ~6-8 seconds to swap then it turns into another debuff which causes the autoattack to do 100k damage. The "countdown" will start on the current tank while the previous tank's debuff still has a few seconds left in most cases so you will need to wait for it to wear off.
    Last edited by TheGrinnz; 03-21-2013 at 07:10 AM.

  8. #8
    Rift Chaser
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    I kinda lazy mode tanked it the first time I had to fill in and it has worked perfectly every time since. I focus the other tank (they pull initially). I have a KAlert set up so when the debuff is on my focus target, an icon pops up in the middle of my screen and I taunt. You have 6 seconds to taunt. I have never had an issue.
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  9. #9
    Rift Master
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    Sounds like there might be multiple problems. 90k hit clearly tank swap not happening correctly. But you made it seem like that wasn't always the case. Perhaps theyre dying while light enraged. Tanks/ healers should manage their cooldowns accordingly, and ensure as few yellow stacks as possible while buff is up.

    Healers can't really slack on this fight when first learning it. And tanks using CDs at propper times helps a ton.

  10. #10
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simos View Post
    To the right side everything seems ok but to the left side (blue twin) the tanks being one shotted at about 80%-85% of boss life. They get sometimes even 90k damage.
    This means that either your tanks are doing the swap wrong, or they don't have anywhere near enough toughness.

    I'm guessing it's the former.

  11. #11
    Rift Disciple steveirrthum's Avatar
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    Are you both twins stacked?
    The bosses "enrage" for a few seconds if they are close. If your tanks are not geared enough you cannot tank the bosses stacked up.

    Maybe that's it.

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  12. #12
    Ascendant
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    So we struggled for a long time with Twins, and I spent a lot of time doing post-mortem on wipes.

    Tank death:
    1) 40k+ in a single hit is a bad swap. Period.
    2) Multiple 20k hits are usually caused by Lightning Rage.
    3) Tank standing in the bubble will result in multiple 7-8k hits on top of other damage.

    Raid death:
    1) Missed cleanses on Devastating Shock + 1 tick of bubble = death
    2) Standing in bubble for 2+ ticks.

    The most important thing we found is to coordinate the AoE cleanses on Devastating Shock. The instinct is everyone cleanses the first one, and no one can cleanse the second time. You really need some semblance of cleanse rotation.
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  13. #13
    Champion of Telara
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    Default

    By the looks of it, I can say without a doubt, that your "left side" tank(s) are failing the ire mechanic.

  14. #14
    Shadowlander
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    The tank swap debuff from each boss is broken into two parts. First a "Tank is becoming vulnerable" debuff goes on the current tank and lasts 5-6 seconds. That turns into a "Tank is vulnerable to that boss" debuff that one shot the tank if the swap hasn't happened yet.

    Note: The initial debuff is sometimes removed as soon as it's applied, removing the need for a tank swap that cycle. Swap or don't swap, it's up to you at that point.

    From memory, KBM will flash during the becoming vulnerable part of it and the tank swap monitor will show the vulnerable debuff duration. If you're the next tank, the flash should trigger a "check to see my debuff has fallen off, check to see the current tank's debuff hasn't gone away, then taunt" process.

  15. #15
    Telaran
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    From my experience on the twins, I have done it both ways successfully (2 and 4 tank method). I believe what you are experiencing is not a bad tank swap. I have taken note on many occasions of bad tank swaps and notice the hit is FAR more than 100k, usually 140k+ almost every time. I oft got hit with 80-90k hits from the boss from when we did the 2 tank method and the boss had the lightning buff at the same time as a few stacks and me not using a cooldown and that's with roughly 79k+ armor raid buffed.

    Also the ire debuff for me has ALWAYS fallen off the very second the boss attempts to apply the debuff to the other tank, I can taunt like clockwork all day long as soon as my debuff falls off through watching my own frame or the one on KBM's tank swap and never get one shot, so not sure about those people saying the debuffs can overlap, never seen that happen since I been doing them. And I have ALWAYS seen the left side apply it first and then right, not the other way around in my experience. But most likely its because of 1-2 stacks of yellow and maybe being tanked on the inside of the pillars and the bosses getting the buff that boost's their dmg, and maybe the lightning rage on top of that. And also having the bosses tanked together only increases their dmg every so often not permanent, there is a little green skull buff that's goes on them every so often when they are near and it lasts for about 5-6 sec? and goes away, so keep an eye out for that to see if they are in fact too close at times.

    But to the OP, I have seen hits in the 80k range that were not from the tank swap going bad, because its been in the middle of the time for tank swaps before or when Neither of us tanks had the debuff. There are definatly things that can cause issues with this fight with all the buffs and power stacks and what not going on. The best thing IMO is to keep yellow stacks low, tank the bosses on the outside of the pillars rather than closer to the inside. And have tanks use cooldowns when moving or LOSing the boss to help healers out.
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