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Thread: The Random Expert Dungeon daily now offers Frozen Eclipse Stone

  1. #31
    Prophet of Telara Lewin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoonfireSpam View Post
    They'd just have to go get themselves T1 ready and find a guild that raids T1's still.

    Imagine that!
    Not sure why they need the raid gear to be t1 ready, pretty much all of ft and at least up to matriarch in ee can be cleared in expert gear.


    All this change really does is make it so that you can grind out the last couple stones you need to get a piece that you would otherwise have to wait for the next reset on.
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by cwharland View Post
    175 marks for the chest piece. Can't wait to finish my full set in early 2014! You'll still have to raid =)
    You have replied to something I never said. You replied to how long it would take while I stated that you should not be able to do this at all.

    That is my position, you should have to raid to get raid gear, not you should get raid gear faster if you raid.

    Stating how long it would take misses my point completely.

  3. #33
    Ascendant MoonfireSpam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewin View Post
    Not sure why they need the raid gear to be t1 ready, pretty much all of ft and at least up to matriarch in ee can be cleared in expert gear.


    All this change really does is make it so that you can grind out the last couple stones you need to get a piece that you would otherwise have to wait for the next reset on.
    Really? I think that might just be a personal record.

    My previous comment requires some context, context which I provided when I quoted your last reply... where you were talking about T2 raids and how people can't get the hit without participating in T1 raids?

    Careful reading of my reply, which you quoted, would show that nowhere did I say they needed these stones to buy gear... I said the new guys would just need to get ready for T1 to get the hit gear for T2.
    So long, and thanks for all the fish~

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cladari View Post
    You have replied to something I never said. You replied to how long it would take while I stated that you should not be able to do this at all.

    That is my position, you should have to raid to get raid gear, not you should get raid gear faster if you raid.

    Stating how long it would take misses my point completely.
    The problem with your position is how Trion is releasing content. Trion does not have an advancement path for gear past what's in the experts for non-raiders nor do they have a plan for a path. The path they choose is allowing expert runners access to the prior raid gear when they are just about or have released the next tier of raids. This means what you feel isn't what Trion is doing.

    I personally don't care what expert runners get, I'm not really in a raid for the gear fully(i would say weapons should always be raid drops, and that's exactly what they have been doing). I raid for the challenge mostly since these fights are the most challenging fights in the game, the social aspect is another big part. I could care less if I see an expert running 6 months after i got a piece running around with the same piece of gear.
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  5. #35
    RIFT Guide Writer Bowler Hat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JodoMcFatty View Post
    The problem with your position is how Trion is releasing content. Trion does not have an advancement path for gear past what's in the experts for non-raiders nor do they have a plan for a path.
    Tell us more of Trion's plans!

    Non-Raiders don't really need raid gear - however I'm willing to bet they all want it, and I fully expect some QQ about how "elitist" my comments are. Ho-hum.

    Non-Raiders do, however, need a short path to raid content, and they currently have this with Expert Dungeons. Dungeon gear gets you the stats you need to raid.

    The recent change to Expert rewards is hardly aimed at getting people into raid gear faster since the reward is so small it will take months to earn a single piece. The rewards are also mutually exclusive - so that's months earning rewards for one piece of raid gear when they could have fully kitted themselves in Expert gear in that time.

    It seems clear to me this change is designed to keep people queueing, and that's a good thing.

    When future T2 content is released we can expect to see Master Modes appear at some point. Their drops are typically in between tier quality, but with the new tier hit. This will still allow non-raiders to gear themselves for new tier entry requirements by running 5 man content.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bowler Hat View Post
    Tell us more of Trion's plans!

    Non-Raiders don't really need raid gear - however I'm willing to bet they all want it, and I fully expect some QQ about how "elitist" my comments are. Ho-hum.
    I'm not into raiding currently, but I NEED raid gear
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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by JodoMcFatty View Post
    The problem with your position is how Trion is releasing content. Trion does not have an advancement path for gear past what's in the experts for non-raiders nor do they have a plan for a path.
    If only Trion would add in an upgrade path for non raiders, it could be tied to zone events and use the zone event currency for gear that is better than expert gear and upgrades to epics that are very nearly as good as raid gear. oh and maybe throw in some easy to make crafted pieces that are very nearly BIS

    wait......

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cladari View Post
    I'm in a minority I see but I think you should have to actually raid to get raid gear.
    Completely agree. I hate this change. I expected it to happen at some point of course... but this seemed pretty early to implement it.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by No_Exit View Post
    Completely agree. I hate this change. I expected it to happen at some point of course... but this seemed pretty early to implement it.
    A change that in no way affects you and that you have no justification for other than some percieved notion that you have to work harder. Most, 80% or so, of the BiS gear is dropped from mobs and upgraded via expert marks so what does it matter. Two marks would be a better number of stones because one stone, barring a bonus, is fine for us raiders but someone who doesn't will take forever to get gear that raiders have better than anyway.

  10. #40
    RIFT Guide Writer Bowler Hat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killian26 View Post
    A change that in no way affects you and that you have no justification for other than some percieved notion that you have to work harder. Most, 80% or so, of the BiS gear is dropped from mobs and upgraded via expert marks so what does it matter.
    He doesn't need any justification to simply dislike a change, and your contention that 80% of BiS armor is dropped is simply untrue. What is or isn't BiS is largely dependent on your class and role, as well as the accuracy of the stat weighting used to derive the list.

    Quote Originally Posted by Killian26 View Post
    Two marks would be a better number of stones because one stone, barring a bonus, is fine for us raiders but someone who doesn't will take forever to get gear that raiders have better than anyway.
    Whether it's one stone or two, the fastest way to get raid gear is to raid. This small change is clearly meant to keep the LFG queues full, just as the Empowerment system did when it was first introduced.

  11. #41
    Ascendant Killian26's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bowler Hat View Post
    He doesn't need any justification to simply dislike a change, and your contention that 80% of BiS armor is dropped is simply untrue. What is or isn't BiS is largely dependent on your class and role, as well as the accuracy of the stat weighting used to derive the list.



    Whether it's one stone or two, the fastest way to get raid gear is to raid. This small change is clearly meant to keep the LFG queues full, just as the Empowerment system did when it was first introduced.
    You kind of do need a justification for why you don't like a change if you want your argument to hold water.....but I guess that's just me. And, as before, it's a segway into the next tier of raiding so there isn't such a huge gear disparity for people who don't raid now but could possibly raid at a later date or just want to do it casually and wouldn't be able to because of the previous tiers obsoletion. The guy I qouted can have his opinion all day but it;s paper thin as are those who agree with him.

  12. #42
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    This change opens up some weird gearing dilemmas for folks. I recently leveled my cleric to 60, crafted a bunch of stuff for him and he's "raid ready", but transitioning to "raid geared" from there is an interesting debate. Should I run the dungeons and take 1 raid mark or the expert marks? "Raid geared" to me is defined as using the 4pc raid crystal at a minimum. Frankly, I think it's still better for people that are "raid ready" (i.e. have enough hit and meet a minimum DPS threshold) to take the expert marks and then run 10 mans and whatever 20 mans they can and be ready to convert raid drops to Empowered raid drops that count for the synergy crystal. Once you hit 4 piece, then start taking raid marks.

    Sadly, this change helps my main who is looking for off spec vendor pieces more than it helps my alt who I think this update is targeted at. A character trying to transition from expert gear to raid gear. I think it would be nice if along with today's patch, they implemented a method for exchanging infinity stones for expert marks as well. Then people could take raid marks from dungeons and farm infinity stones to convert to expert marks to upgrade raid drops. As it stands, gearing up efficiently is more confusing than ever.
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  13. #43
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    You could transpose this entire thread back a year and a half when they started introducing Hammerknell tokens into Experts

    Same for and against arguments, virtually carbon copies of the pros and cons

  14. #44
    Plane Walker Jimhalpert's Avatar
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    "Hey do you have shenanigans number, I need to call it."*

    *this post does not contribute to this topic in any meaningful way, do I get ambassador?

  15. #45
    Prophet of Telara cwharland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cladari View Post
    You have replied to something I never said. You replied to how long it would take while I stated that you should not be able to do this at all.

    That is my position, you should have to raid to get raid gear, not you should get raid gear faster if you raid.

    Stating how long it would take misses my point completely.
    Nah I read ya loud and clear. I'm simply making light of the fact that your extreme "no marks outside of raid" stance will most likely result in individuals that never set foot in a raid collecting a single digit percent of all raid gear ever collected by actual raiders. Good politics though!

    To put it in perspective, it's actually almost harder to get certain BiS essences from raid rift lures than it is raid gear. The work you need to put into getting an essences (rep + stones + planarite + raid) is more than is needed to get a raid mark piece. Essences are almost larger stat bumps as well. My rogue is near a raid piece of mark gear and he hit 60 four days ago and hasn't collected a single raid mark from randoms. In contrast he has a blue source machine and is quite far from ever getting the BiS essences. So if "only raiders should get raid level gear" (even if it takes them months to get one piece) then we should also check character achievements before allowing them to equip crafted 65 hit gear and raid rift essences!!!!
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