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Thread: New 11+ boss raid instance !

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    Champion Taxt's Avatar
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    Default New 11+ boss raid instance !

    A new 11+ boss raid instance would be amazing!

    Thoughts and/or comment everyone

    I think that would be a be the best thing for SL right now!

  2. #2
    Sword of Telara Valavus's Avatar
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    That would be awesome!!!!!!!!

    Too bad they fired all the folks that can do that.

    Perhaps after Defiance launches, they will remember what their cash cow is....and that their raider base is not going to wait 2-3 more months for new content.
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    Sword of Telara Valavus's Avatar
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    Realistically speaking, I know a ton of us bought the expansion+year sub bundle. So Trion knows most of it's raider base isn't leaving the game for good...at least until the end of the year when it comes time to toss more money into the game. But it will be a very empty game for a long time, which will deter the casual base and new players coming from the bleeding husk that is Pandaland.
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    Rift Master IonCannon's Avatar
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    My prediction... *peers into crystal ball* It will be called Storm Legion Tier 2 - 20 man. If you look at it they are following the same model for the tiers of content in Storm legion as they did for Rift launch. Tier 1 (2 raids 9 bosses [relatively easy difficulty]) compared to Tier 1 storm legion (2 raids 9 bosses [relatively easy difficulty]). I think we will get a nice big HK'esque Raid for Tier 2.

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    Yeah, I look forward to an incredible T2.
    Last edited by Ahov; 03-18-2013 at 01:48 PM.

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    I hope the lead up to the new T2 can rival what Hammerknell did. Hammerknell had an epic feel to it, in my opinion, both from the bosses/amazing art work of the dungeon itself and from the lead up event with Murdantix + the Dwarfs in Moonshade, that was just amazing and I have been hoping for something even close to that since.

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    shp
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    I'm sceptical that current team will be able to top HK - a shining gem in RIFT history. This game was so good back in the day... Ehh, nostalgia hit me again. But seriously, taking into consideration all layoffs and cuts and different approach to raiding these days, even if we get instance with 11 bosses, I doubt it's gonna be as hard and challenging as HK was. ID was quite big and considered a big let down for many. Time will tell and hopefully prove me wrong.

    And btw. don't expect it to be anytime soon, I remember some dev posting that we are still far away from T2 20man.

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    Ascendant Xenoheart's Avatar
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    Ya HK was so epic, and I loved waves of madness.

    I can't wait :-)
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    RIFT Community Ambassador Slipmat's Avatar
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    I would love a large multi boss instance again, Hammerknell was just epic

    Have to weigh the pros and cons though, how difficult should they make it? do they want another "Guild Breaker" raid with bosses who literally tore Guilds apart, Sicaron, Grug et al, etc?

    Think i remember Scott Hartsman saying in an interview they "probably" wouldn't go down that road again of each person been responsible for their actions and one mistake by anyone could wipe the raid, but policies might have changed

    Of course they could stay the course they're doing now and implement hard modes on all or some of the bosses in this 10+ multi boss instance, or just make it hard from day one on "normal"

    To use the well worn example, World of Warcraft, they opened up the Heroic version of their new 13-boss instance only last week and already four or more Guilds are 10/13 Heroic, probably even more after tonight's raids.

    Admittedly those Guilds would be the best in terms of WoW raiding, but just demonstrates the question, how hard can they make hard? one month of non stop wipes to kill the entry boss? five bosses killed in first night? whole raid cleared in one reset? it's a fine line to tread

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slipmat View Post
    I would love a large multi boss instance again, Hammerknell was just epic

    Have to weigh the pros and cons though, how difficult should they make it? do they want another "Guild Breaker" raid with bosses who literally tore Guilds apart, Sicaron, Grug et al, etc?

    Think i remember Scott Hartsman saying in an interview they "probably" wouldn't go down that road again of each person been responsible for their actions and one mistake by anyone could wipe the raid, but policies might have changed

    Of course they could stay the course they're doing now and implement hard modes on all or some of the bosses in this 10+ multi boss instance, or just make it hard from day one on "normal"

    To use the well worn example, World of Warcraft, they opened up the Heroic version of their new 13-boss instance only last week and already four or more Guilds are 10/13 Heroic, probably even more after tonight's raids.

    Admittedly those Guilds would be the best in terms of WoW raiding, but just demonstrates the question, how hard can they make hard? one month of non stop wipes to kill the entry boss? five bosses killed in first night? whole raid cleared in one reset? it's a fine line to tread
    Tons of guilds disbanded over Ituziel, and Ituziel wasn't incredibly difficult.

    I think it has less to do with the encounters and more to do with guilds being unmotivated.
    Last edited by Ahov; 03-18-2013 at 02:21 PM.

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    Official Rift Founding Fan Site Operator bctrainers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahov View Post
    Tons of guilds disbanded over Ituziel, and Ituziel wasn't incredibly difficult.

    I think it has less to do with the encounters and more to do with guilds being unmotivated.
    For hardcore guilds, no, it wasn't all to difficult to grasp and execute. For the more semi-casual guilds, Ituziel was quite the guild drama starter - simply to say.
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    Quote Originally Posted by shp View Post
    I'm sceptical that current team will be able to top HK - a shining gem in RIFT history. This game was so good back in the day... Ehh, nostalgia hit me again. But seriously, taking into consideration all layoffs and cuts and different approach to raiding these days, even if we get instance with 11 bosses, I doubt it's gonna be as hard and challenging as HK was. ID was quite big and considered a big let down for many. Time will tell and hopefully prove me wrong.

    And btw. don't expect it to be anytime soon, I remember some dev posting that we are still far away from T2 20man.
    ID was a bit of a let down, and yet it contained arguably one of the top fights in the game in Laethy's. Part of ID being a letdown was related to the relative ease of Maelforge when compared to Laethy's which left a bit of a bad taste in folks mouths, and the fact that so many guilds cheesed so much in ID (both designers faults and guilds faults). In addition, the whole "weekend" gating thing caused drama that forever tainted the discussions and feelings surrounding IDs release and content progression.

    The ideas behind ID however were stellar. Unique fights and interesting layouts. Was it the full (well mostly full) package that HK was? Certainly not. But a big part of what made HK special was the fact that it did feel so "epic" because it was 11 bosses and compared to GSB/RoS it was much more expansive both in size and fight design.

    I don't know who Trion has left designing raid content outside of a few names, but they would do well to follow a few key design elements:

    1: Large scale. Even if "numbers"-wise its not huge in terms of trash mobs and whatnot... a large scale dungeon with a large number of bosses makes things feel more important, special, interesting.... and of course "Epic". I actually think if they had merged EE and FT people would of come away feeling better about SL raid content then with them split into 2 raids.

    2: A fight layout that gets progressively harder. There is nothing worse then working on an initial boss for weeks before downing it... only to get the next boss down in 1 day. Unfortunately this has happened far too often in RIFT's raid content. It should start easy and get harder and harder.

    3: Don't over design. The more complex a fight the more interesting it has the potential to be, but if you go overboard it ends up a problem filled nightmare. People like interesting fights, but they also like working fights. This goes for area design as well. There is nothing more silly then a boss encounter that can be cheesed by 1 safe spot that came into being because someone wanted a pretty candle holder in the corner.

    4: Class and build flexibility. Part of the problem ive seen recently in raids is the tendency to require certain raid setups to complete a fight. Or even worse... the need to carry a particular soul into a fight to deal with a 10 second period in the fight, and then be mostly useless the rest of the time. You can design fights to make things interesting and still test players and guilds.... without putting pressure on them to carry 8 warriors, or 5 tanks, or 5 aoe healers, or 6 tacticians.

    Theres other things related to testing but.... thats a whole other ballgame LOL.

  13. #13
    Prophet of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by shp View Post
    I'm sceptical that current team will be able to top HK - a shining gem in RIFT history. This game was so good back in the day... Ehh, nostalgia hit me again. But seriously, taking into consideration all layoffs and cuts and different approach to raiding these days, even if we get instance with 11 bosses, I doubt it's gonna be as hard and challenging as HK was. ID was quite big and considered a big let down for many. Time will tell and hopefully prove me wrong.

    And btw. don't expect it to be anytime soon, I remember some dev posting that we are still far away from T2 20man.
    HK was hard only because you were undergeared when you set foot in it.

    Where not you are geared enough when you set foot in it.

    And it was bugged to beat all. Making it harder.

    And of course Trion's love for 1 shot mechanics that instantly wipe the raid.

    The unnerfed Last Boss in GP was harder than anything in HK but Aky. And Aky was hard because of RNG and the waves. Get a bad RNG and you lost no matter what you did.

    I'm not down on HK. I thought it was great fun.

    I thought GSB when it first came out was very nasty. People forget that. Everyone now just remember GSB now. But when you had to do the mechanics GSB was great fun. And could hand you your butt:P

  14. #14
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by No_Exit View Post
    4: Class and build flexibility. Part of the problem ive seen recently in raids is the tendency to require certain raid setups to complete a fight. Or even worse... the need to carry a particular soul into a fight to deal with a 10 second period in the fight, and then be mostly useless the rest of the time. You can design fights to make things interesting and still test players and guilds.... without putting pressure on them to carry 8 warriors, or 5 tanks, or 5 aoe healers, or 6 tacticians.
    As part of this, I think there are some specs that need to be changed in various ways. Tactman is probably the biggest offender here, like we saw on Matriarch and some hardmodes. Its damage on cleave fights is way too strong, so any cleave fight is automatically unbalanced.

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    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    As part of this, I think there are some specs that need to be changed in various ways. Tactman is probably the biggest offender here, like we saw on Matriarch and some hardmodes. Its damage on cleave fights is way too strong, so any cleave fight is automatically unbalanced.
    See PTS...

    And as for mechanics that require specific specs/makeups -- I think this is actually cool when it happens, in moderation. Mage tank, warden healer, hell maybe make a boss that requires Point to Point for once. Guilds that are serious about progression should have all options available to try, you can nerf it later. Tactman doesn't really fall under this, it just does the best job of filling the "massive AoE damage" niche without losing ST damage.
    Last edited by TheGrinnz; 03-18-2013 at 09:31 PM.

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