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Thread: Jultharin and the DPS race

  1. #1
    Shadowlander
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    Default Jultharin and the DPS race

    There have been a couple of threads on Jultharin and most of them end with "stop crying about his health and enrage timer and get your DPS up".

    Based on my calculations, total DPS needs to be about 70k. We were pulling 60k and hit enrage at least six times and he still had 11% health. When you think about it, you really only have six people DPS'ing since you need two healers, a tank and a bard. Yes, tank does some damage, so does the bard, so does a mage healer - but they only contribute about 5 - 6k total. So this means all six DPS need to be pulling at least 12 - 13k each.

    What is my point? As a cleric, I have all purple gear. Either upgrades from the merchant using stones or three drops from TDQ all of which have been upgraded to the Qil set (I still need a fourth). I have expensive runes on all of them. Anything crafted has been augmented with the best aug availalable. I am using the Inquis/Defller build for max DPS - and I am lucky to pull 9k. That is if I dont miss anything in my rotation - but due to the need to move a lot during that fight, I do miss things in the rotation. So do others. That lowers the DPS a great deal.

    So the only way to get more DPS is to get better gear - but if we cant progress past this boss, then there is no way to get better gear from the Raid. The only gear that will help me (and many of my guildies) is Raid gear. Yes, some still need upgrades but even if they are maxed (like I am) will it be enough?

    My point here is that TDQ is the starter raid which means a team that is made up of players who are geared "before" the raid using stones and experts. A team of 4 -5 well geared players should be able to get through the Raid and pull a few lesser geared guildies through it to help them gear up. Most of the Raid was pulling 7 - 9k DPS with two pulling 10+ and we hit enrage at 5:10 every single time. We have the mechanics down - we simply dont have the DPS. But we cant get the DPS without progressing and getting to farm status.

    So yes, I am *****ing about the fact that they have added a million HP to Jultharin and reduced his enrage to 5:10. You can say "not all bosses have exact enrage timers" all you want, but he enrages on us at 5:10 Every. Single. Time. So it is consistent. If we had that extra 20 seconds that KBM says he is supposed to have we could down him.

    Making a Raid boss so healthy that a "well geared" group cant get him down and progress doesnt make for a good first tier raid IMO. Needing 70k DPS out of six people isn't something that is easy unless they are already geared - and you cant get the gear needed due to the boss being too hard to kill.

    Keep your flames and "stop the QQ" to a minimum please. Does anyone agree with me? Is anyone else having issues getting this boss down before enrage? I think they buffed him when you could do the Vine cheat but now that they nerfed the cheat IMO they need to remove the health buff and let us progress.

    And before you start in with the "your DPS sucks" we can get to this boss in about 30 minutes and when we could do the vine cheat we could do the entire Raid in about 2 hours.... so our DPS for the other bosses and trash is fine including the last boss. But this boss has us stuck now. Anyone else feel 70k DPS for a boss in the first Raid you need to do is a bit much?

    My .02

    Cheers

  2. #2
    Ascendant Archemys's Avatar
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    My first run through near release, people weren't as geared and we met enrage. We were able to squeeze by with swapping a chloro healer in for a cleric 0 dps healer.

    As far as the encounter goes though... I've cleared it ( legit ) on all 4 of my toons. The main problem I've seen is target switching w\ the orbs. If not done efficiently that can really hurt your dps numbers.

    The instance is still easier given gear levels & such than ROTP or PF were when they first came out.
    <Coriolis>
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  3. #3
    Sword of Telara xxar's Avatar
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    Use potions that up overall dps for the raid and banners. The potions will add in a considerable amount of dps to the total amount.

  4. #4
    Ascendant radiomaryja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whysper View Post
    That is if I dont miss anything in my rotation - but due to the need to move a lot during that fight, I do miss things in the rotation. So do others. That lowers the DPS a great deal.
    You are not supposed to move alot in this fight. When you have single line ALWAYS hit the spark that will break the lightning in the space the boss is tanked. Double lines from opposite directions can be done same way. Only time you will move is with lines on 90 degrees. Prioritize proper sparks, and it shouldn't be a problem. Have a person calling where are the lines coming from, have a person marking the spark. Use banners, crit pots, PA consumables if you got them. Most important thing - quick switch to sparks, if people slack with it, you will fail no matter how good your dps is.
    Last edited by radiomaryja; 03-06-2013 at 09:11 AM.

  5. #5
    Rift Chaser unforgiven's Avatar
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    It is a tough one for most guilds and I understand you're frustration. However, it is completely possible even without being in full raid gear. The key is your raid's coordination on switching to and from the orbs. My guild uses a priority system to always know which one to hit. We have no need to take the time to mark one or anything. We all know exactly where to go when they spawn and switch immediately. We also keep about 3 of our dps on the boss when there is only one lazer wall coming. If there are two we use everyone on the orbs though. Hope you get past it and good luck.

    "Go ahead and run, you'll only die tired."

  6. #6
    Telaran Lioninya's Avatar
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    The simple fact is that this instance was being cleared with people in some of the worst gear when SL was released. Is it a gear issue? probably not. Could it be a composition/spec issue? most likely. Remember, just cause a certain website might have a strat that worked well for one group doesn't mean that it will be the same for yours. Progression even in the smaller raids is still just that. If something isn't working then change it...don't expect Trion to hand you the carrot just yet although I'm sure it's on the horizon with the next tier already in testing phases.

  7. #7
    Ascendant meph1111's Avatar
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    If you're hitting the enrage timer you're either moving too much or underperforming... or both

  8. #8
    Plane Touched
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    It may come down to builds that your team is using and getting people to switch as soon as the wisps are up. There is a lot of target switching so having a build that doesn't drop horribly on switches helps a lot. If you aren't having a problem burning wisps in time it might be worth having a Warrior go melee or you to Shaman and stay on the boss full time.
    It can be really tough to put out top damage with Inq on this fight. Also, Inquisitor with 15 Defiler is likely a little lower than with 7 Shaman due to the amount of time you're below 90% health. You shouldn't need to carry around the spec just for this fight, but if you need to scratch out a little more dps personally it might be worth a shot.
    As much as people hate it, for Mages Ele is really good here.

  9. #9
    Plane Touched Cinnibar's Avatar
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    You do not need 70k. Not nearly that much. You need like, 55k maybe, if your dps don't waste damn time not attacking things or attacking the wrong things.

    Edit: Who the hell is marking your wisps? And why are they taking eons to do it?
    Last edited by Cinnibar; 03-06-2013 at 09:22 AM.

  10. #10
    Telaran Dragonmaster384's Avatar
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    When(if ever?) did they buff his HP? My guild has never used the "vine cheat", and we've cleared him consistently every week for a while now(we still wipe on occasion, but usually not more than a couple times). Our DPS isn't amazing, as we're a somewhat casual guild, and we've never hit 70k raid DPS. AFAIK our clears usually pin us around 55k - 60k(unless our meters are off significantly, but we all come up with about the same number each time). Our most recent clear was last Wednesday evening, so unless they changed something between now and then I'd say 60k is a good target to down him.

    Strategy wise, something that has worked amazing for us is target of target. We have one guy leading all the DPS who is responsible for choosing which wisp is priority, and everyone else just targets him the entire fight. Little to none of our DPS is wasted on the other wisps, and we get right back to burning the boss. Only person not doing that is usually one DPS sticking on the boss as a backup interrupter if the tank misses. If you haven't done this before then try it - worked wonders for us!
    Draxaria - Lv65 Rogue --- Draxxonar - Lv65 Mage --- Draxxeer - Lv65 Cleric --- Draxlia - Lv53 Warrior
    ~Shatterbone at heart, Wolfsbane in reality~

  11. #11
    RIFT Guide Writer RoughRaptorsOld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whysper View Post
    Yes, tank does some damage, so does the bard, so does a mage healer - but they only contribute about 5 - 6k total. So this means all six DPS need to be pulling at least 12 - 13k each.
    5-6k from a tank, bard, and chloro? I do 5k by myself as a tank. Something is wrong, change your comp. Make sure people are running the right specs and doing the right rotation.

    This fight is NOT hard by any means, people exploited it, never learned it, never learned their class, and now can't beat a fight that they once cheated to kill. Either don't kill the boss or learn how to play your role properly, there are plenty of guides.

  12. #12
    Plane Walker Perros_The_Second's Avatar
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    It is news to me that 70k are required to beat this encounter. Our better guild groups exceed 70k but depending on number of alts, under geared players our goal is to reach 60k to win. We are not a hardcore or progression guild and have been struggling with this encounter initially until people figured out their rotation and switching became more coordinated.This is without cheating or using an 61 Archon. An unusual string of double walls may increase the dps requirement but that is just bad luck. We usually do fine with 6x ish dps.

    As others have mentioned, fast and coordinated target switching,and minimizing movement are important. If this is a progression attempt you can also get a lot more dps from the tank/support/heal group by using higher dps tanks (VK) and healers (Chloro/Warden). Two healers, tank, bard can contribute ~10k or more. I also recommend always using an Archon (or Beastmaster) because a well played Archon is a dps gain in a 10man. If two healers manage to keep everyone alive, which they should, the Bard can be dropped for a full dps. . You may even be able to replace a Chloro for a higher dps Chlorobinger. If the sparks die fast, having a high melee dps permanently on Jultharin is another way of increasing total dps.

    Good luck (and Trion please don't nerf the only sightly challenging encounter)
    Last edited by Perros_The_Second; 03-06-2013 at 09:34 AM.

  13. #13
    Ascendant Onebutton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonmaster384 View Post
    Strategy wise, something that has worked amazing for us is target of target. We have one guy leading all the DPS who is responsible for choosing which wisp is priority, and everyone else just targets him the entire fight. Little to none of our DPS is wasted on the other wisps, and we get right back to burning the boss. Only person not doing that is usually one DPS sticking on the boss as a backup interrupter if the tank misses. If you haven't done this before then try it - worked wonders for us!
    This method can cause ability lag, but if it works, then cool.. What happens if that person is not there tho in the raid?

    The easiest way to get by this boss is to have some mark an orb as number 1... Everyone can have a macro like "/tar @mark 1" and then just tap that once the orb is marked - which should be very quick.. I highly suggest this over targeting through someone, since when you do boss 1 in FT this is very good for killing the birds, vortex, Gelidra, etc...

    GL all tho on this fight.

  14. #14
    Telaran
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    The two guilds I run ToDQ with regularly both use a designated marker. We've never experienced any issues with enrage. It's always been purely a function of how fast the marker gets the targets up.

    Only person not doing that is usually one DPS sticking on the boss as a backup interrupter if the tank misses.
    Why do this even? Have the interrupters focus Jultharin and use /cast @focus $interrupt. Bam, no need to designate people for anything. His cooldown is longer than that of any interrupt, so everyone can just spam for it when he casts.
    ~~~Whisperfoot of the Storm - Ranged Rogue~~~
    ~~~May the way of the Hero lead to the Triforce~~~

  15. #15
    Prophet of Telara Lewin's Avatar
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    My only issue with this fight is the rng on wether or not you get double walls, single walls, or no walls. Have had attemps where the first 2 walls were singles.and every one after that was a double,.have had him skip 2 walls in a row.before etc. If he was more consistant (single walls only till 40% and then doubles till dead or something like that, oror only does double walls like 2 or 3 times during the fight) it would probably be a lot less frustrating for lesser geared groups.

    Also if you really just can't meet enrage, you can always try the point to point method, but that requires more personal responsibility from everyone to take it at the correct times.
    Ortoun 60 Warrior Tank 4/4 TDQ 4/4 FT 5/5 EE 1/4 HM Shatterbone
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