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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Dungeon/Raid Testing and YOU!

  1.   Click here to go to the next Rift Team post in this thread.   #1
    Rift Team
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    Default Dungeon/Raid Testing and YOU!

    Hey all, we're making this post in order to enlighten you guys about our general philosophy towards dungeon testing moving forwards and to hear what you like and dislike in regards to these methods.

    Having new encounters open on PTS is an excellent way for us to find bugs, get continual feedback on numbers for tuning, and get general feelings about mechanics. The one downside is that guilds can "progress" through testing and when the content goes live they may be able to clear it within the first day or week. We feel that the sheer number of benefits from this method outweigh the negatives. Moving forward we plan to have all dungeon content available on the PTS. Final encounters will potentially be dev only tested to keep some mechanics under wraps, along with various other spot testing with devs on their own encounters at their discretion to iron out more complex mechanics in a manner similar to how raid testing has traditionally functioned.

    From what we’ve seen and heard in regards to Hard Mode PTS testing we think that this model functions well based on how much valuable feedback we have received from you guys. We believe that most of you would agree that having these encounters open has led to some well-tuned and bug free fights. Going forward we encourage you to reach out to me or Halvon with feedback, parses, general feelings, and of course streams/videos are extremely helpful. You can PM us with information; we are always open to chat. We want to make testing as fun and painless as possible so we are playing around with some new methods that you will see when the new Sliver, Grim Awakening, goes live on PTS (which should be within a week or two).

    If you have any suggestions or concerns about PTS testing please bring them up here or PM if you want to be more discrete. We want to bring you guys the absolute most fun content we can, so getting your voice heard is extremely important since you are the ones playing it! One final note, if you guys can refrain from guild drama/flames in feedback threads we would greatly appreciate it.

    Thanks!
    The Dungeon Team

  2. #2
    Rift Master sculti's Avatar
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    well you kill the progress idea completly

    but i get it, if you only have 10 people left working on rift thats the best method to test content
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    Rift Disciple Flossil's Avatar
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    I wonder if there will be a ton of achievements that don't work properly in this raid as well. Good thing I know Trion will lose the logs if anything doesn't trigger properly.

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    Ascendant No_Exit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyzo View Post
    The one downside is that guilds can "progress" through testing and when the content goes live they may be able to clear it within the first day or week. We feel that the sheer number of benefits from this method outweigh the negatives.
    I completely disagree that the benefits outweigh the negatives. By doing what you describe you cause the following situations to happen:

    1: A general lack of excitement towards new content. If you can all go and test it first... where is the surprise. This is an absolute game breaker in my opinion. You wont just drive away the hardcore but many casuals as well.

    2: To a certain degree... killing progress. With everyone and anyone able to test nearly all aspects of encounters... it only further dilutes the sense of a "progression race". I understand that no matter what some must test it and that has always been a point of contention when guilds claim "firsts". But going the route you describe doesn't fix that problem. If anything the problem will become greater because more guilds and more voices will be involved. This leads to #3

    3: Lack of competition. The competition will now happen in the black hole that is the PTS. Competition is vital to the health of any game. People want a sense of personal and guild accomplishment. Whether thats based on beating other guilds out to something, or simply accomplishing a goal you set out to complete. Allowing nearly full access on the PTS basically ruins much of that sense of accomplishment in my opinion.


    This decision concerns me.......
    Last edited by No_Exit; 02-22-2013 at 03:14 PM.

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    RIFT Guide Writer RoughRaptorsOld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by No_Exit View Post
    1: A general lack of excitement towards new content. If you can all go and test it first... where is the surprise. This is an absolute game breaker in my opinion. You wont just drive away the hardcore but many casuals as well.
    Agreed for the most part. I am always excited to see new content, except now nothing will be new. I disagree on the casual part, as I highly doubt many non-top guilds are even thinking about the PTS or even have it installed. But yes, it will drive away the hardcore community.

    Quote Originally Posted by No_Exit View Post
    2: To a certain degree... killing progress. With everyone and anyone able to test nearly all aspects of encounters... it only further dilutes the sense of a "progression race".
    The progression race is gone with this, I agree. We are now forced to spend all our free time on the PTS raiding just to ensure we can keep up when the content goes live.

    Quote Originally Posted by No_Exit View Post
    3: Lack of competition. The competition will now happen in the black hole that is the PTS. Competition is vital to the health of any game. People want a sense of personal and guild accomplishment. Whether thats based on beating other guilds out to something, or simply accomplishing a goal you set out to complete. Allowing nearly full access on the PTS basically ruins much of that sense of accomplishment in my opinion.
    The competition is still there, it is just done on the PTS. Whoever spends the most time raiding outside of the live servers will win the progression races from now on, which I am not looking forward to.
    Last edited by RoughRaptorsOld; 02-22-2013 at 03:21 PM.

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    Ascendant simpa1988's Avatar
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    cant say i like it and im not a hardcore raider.
    it seems a bit odd to have full the content up on the pts

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    Plane Touched Khuj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simpa1988 View Post
    cant say i like it and im not a hardcore raider.
    it seems a bit odd to have full the content up on the pts
    See the quote below.

    Final encounters will potentially be dev only tested to keep some mechanics under wraps, along with various other spot testing with devs on their own encounters at their discretion to iron out more complex mechanics in a manner similar to how raid testing has traditionally functioned.
    Last edited by Khuj; 02-22-2013 at 03:35 PM.
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    Ascendant simpa1988's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khuj View Post
    See the quote below.
    yeah i read it.
    i dont know lets see how it will go on testing

  9. #9
    Shield of Telara
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    So those that test are complaining? Why? Because you lost your l33t status?

    Lack of competition? B.S.! There was NO competition when you had groups who had testing rights compared to those who didn't. To even say there was a level playing field on the race is a joke.

    I am concerned for a different reason. It means, imo, that TRION has lost dungeon devs that would hang out on vent with guilds getting their feedback. IMO, that feedback was more than just dungeon related. It was a great way for customers to talk to the devs and for the devs to learn what people are seeing.

    Personally, I would prefer they did not have stuff on PTS. I would prefer they didn't have testing guilds for new content. I would prefer non-bugged instances I would prefer it open the same time for everyone and for NO one to have knowledge of anything. But again, I tend to want to be fair.

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    RIFT Guide Writer RoughRaptorsOld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daayou View Post
    I would prefer they didn't have testing guilds for new content. I would prefer non-bugged instances I would prefer it open the same time for everyone and for NO one to have knowledge of anything. But again, I tend to want to be fair.
    This is not possible. They don't have an in-house raid testing group of 20 people. It's either guild testing, or no testing whatsoever, leading to incredibly broken encounters. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

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    Ascendant Bloodbourne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoughRaptors View Post
    This is not possible. They don't have an in-house raid testing group of 20 people. It's either guild testing, or no testing whatsoever, leading to incredibly broken encounters. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
    You totally could... if Trion hadn't bungled so hard early on, and the playerbase was still as populated as it was early on. They should have HAD an in-house testing crew, that KNEW what they were doing. So many issues could have been avoided.

    In the end, this is what we get. PTS peen waggling, and comepletely irrelevant competition for firsts.
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    Champion of Telara Adeezha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by No_Exit View Post
    1: A general lack of excitement towards new content. If you can all go and test it first... where is the surprise. This is an absolute game breaker in my opinion. You wont just drive away the hardcore but many casuals as well....
    Yeah, it's a well known fact that beta testing kills interest in upcoming releases....lol.

    I think some special snowflakes are not keen on others playing with their toys.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoughRaptors View Post
    This is not possible. They don't have an in-house raid testing group of 20 people. It's either guild testing, or no testing whatsoever, leading to incredibly broken encounters. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

    It is possible. They can release a bug free zone. Their history shows they have not. But to assume that it is not possible is insulting to programmers


    When you consider that an encounter is nothing more than a mathematical formula, math is absolute.

    Considering I was talking to someone recently and without trying to get this turned into a NQ bashing thread, he mentioned the stone stacking. I mentioned that this 'bug' was mentioned to the dev team back in the ALPHA testing of GS. So from a programming point of view, the testing did NOTHING to help them fix the bug. They knew it existed and chose to focus on a different priority. In essence this is the same thing. Instead of racing to push content out, regardless of the state of it, slow it down and get it RIGHT. Minor tweaks show be expected, but massive bugs, ala Maklamos, should never ever be released. Of course, this is just my opinion, and of course their business model dictates a lot of things.

  14. #14
    RIFT Guide Writer RoughRaptorsOld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daayou View Post
    It is possible. They can release a bug free zone. Their history shows they have not. But to assume that it is not possible is insulting to programmers

    When you consider that an encounter is nothing more than a mathematical formula, math is absolute.
    You clearly know nothing about coding if you think it's possible to release anything 100% bug free in an MMO. Yes, math is absolute...with a near infinite number of variables.

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    Plane Walker DaCommando's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daayou View Post
    It is possible. They can release a bug free zone. Their history shows they have not. But to assume that it is not possible is insulting to programmers
    Any person that works in the development field will tell u it is impossible to create any software without bugs.

    Same goes to encounters/zones. Cant create a zone that is 100% bug free (even softwares that are supposed to be bug free coz ppl's lives depend on it, are not 100% bug free lol)..
    Retired

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