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Thread: DPS requirements forcing soul choices

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    Rift Chaser unforgiven's Avatar
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    Default DPS requirements forcing soul choices

    So my guild is currently 4/4 TDQ and have attempted to move into FT. Our healz and tanking are fine and we last till the enrage timer easily. Sadly we are far off from killing the boss. Our dps is nowhere near where it needs to be to kill this boss. Our members and officers are pretty frustrated now because they are being pressured to change to roles they don't want to play. One of the biggest joys of Rift is the sheer amount of choices we are given with our soul choices. However, due to strict enrage timers we are now unable to progress in the souls we want to play. I'm not calling for nerfs or anything doom and gloom. I'm only voicing the concerns my guild members are going through right now. If my guild is going through this, I am sure others are as well.

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    Ascendant No_Exit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unforgiven View Post
    So my guild is currently 4/4 TDQ and have attempted to move into FT. Our healz and tanking are fine and we last till the enrage timer easily. Sadly we are far off from killing the boss. Our dps is nowhere near where it needs to be to kill this boss. Our members and officers are pretty frustrated now because they are being pressured to change to roles they don't want to play. One of the biggest joys of Rift is the sheer amount of choices we are given with our soul choices. However, due to strict enrage timers we are now unable to progress in the souls we want to play. I'm not calling for nerfs or anything doom and gloom. I'm only voicing the concerns my guild members are going through right now. If my guild is going through this, I am sure others are as well.
    Its possible... but your forgetting something important. You talk about the amount of choices you are given, and yet you speak as if many of the members of your guild only want to play 1 soul. Now how does that make sense?

    To respond directly to your comments..... different bosses often require different aims and as such... different specs. No matter what.. 1 DPS spec will always come out ahead of another in certain situations and raid fights. There is really no realistic way to fix that. If your players can not be flexible to build to what works in each situation, then they will not progress in RIFT until the content is nerfed down. I am not trying to be harsh here, but end game content is end game content. I understand folks have favorite builds, souls, specs.... and if it was still viable.... i would still be carrying Inquisicar. I fell in love with it on Laethy's and was sad to see it go. But i had to adjust. Things change... whether through patches or through what works on each particular fight.

    Sounds like your guild and its guild members are being far to rigid for a guild trying to progress through end game content.

  3. #3
    Plane Touched Cinnibar's Avatar
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    How many healers are you using?

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    Rift Disciple Silus's Avatar
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    What's that? Certain soul combinations are better than others? I'm not sure I believe you!

    There's always going to be better choices for DPS (until you take the cookie-cutter max dps spec and spread it like wildfire), but even then there are options that aren't terrible. Are you sure your DPS aren't just having a performance issue? Maybe you run too many healers? Do you have a lot of deaths in a fight due to mental absenteeism of your players? Yes there are sub-par specs, but even running a top spec you might not maximize your dps just because the player is either unpracticed or incapable.
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    Ascendant Primalthirst's Avatar
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    As No Exit has said, the reality is that raids demand a certain level of performance, that is why they are challenging and an achievement when ypu complete the encounters.

    There are a number of things I would immediately suggest:
    -Ensure players are performing the optimal rotation for their spec if they are unwilling to change
    -See if one of you healers will change to DPS for the fight, it sounds like you are overhealing it
    -Check that all raid buffs and debuffs are properly maintained and Wild Growth/Orchestra pf the Planes/Verse of Joy/Flaring Power are being properly synchronised.
    Nope.

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    Plane Touched kiralia's Avatar
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    I think the difference is that before even if you didn't have perfect souls with perfect rotations and raid make up you could still expect decent progression. Now things are much tighter and its more a min/max game.

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    One of the reasons enrage timers are there: to limit the amount of healers you can bring on progression content.

    You'll find (I hope) that you don't need as many healers as you think you do.

    Strategically speaking, there are other things you can do. Since you didn't specify which boss in FT, I'm going to assume Gelidra. For one, having a target switch macro can shave off valuable seconds of finding the target. So, one could have a macro to switch from Gelidra to the bird to the cyclone, and those seconds add up.

    Also, make sure you're bringing valuable support roles. Yes, this may be part of your complaint, but you should always have a bard, and you should always have either an archon or a beastmaster.

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    Ascendant Primalthirst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiralia View Post
    I think the difference is that before even if you didn't have perfect souls with perfect rotations and raid make up you could still expect decent progression. Now things are much tighter and its more a min/max game.
    To be fair they really arent, the enrage timers for almost all bosses this tier are much easier than they have been in the past.
    Nope.

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    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primalthirst View Post
    To be fair they really arent, the enrage timers for almost all bosses this tier are much easier than they have been in the past.
    Basically this. The main difference is that a lot of guilds are getting their first real taste of raid content that hasn't yet been nerfed very heavily.

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    Plane Touched kiralia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    Basically this. The main difference is that a lot of guilds are getting their first real taste of raid content that hasn't yet been nerfed very heavily.
    That could be it I guess, I just know a lot of guilds are finding things far less forgiving than they are used to.

  11. #11
    Champion of Telara
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    If I'm understanding you correctly, you said: "One of the biggest joys of Rift is the sheer amount of choices we are given with our soul choices. However, due to strict enrage timers we are now unable to progress in the souls we want to play."

    However, there have never been pre-nerfed encounters where 20 people could play whatever they wanted. So... I'm not really sure what your complaint is exactly. Have you only ever progressed on encounters that have been heavily nerfed in the past like HK?
    Last edited by Ayona; 02-17-2013 at 09:41 PM.

  12. #12
    Rift Disciple
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    Awww HK pre nerf that brings back memories now that raid content got your butthole tight pucker factor was maxed at 11

    ID was a 8

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  13. #13
    RIFT Guide Writer intrinsc's Avatar
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    It will always be like this. The fact that Rift has such a diverse soul system makes it even more unbalanced. It will never be truly balanced. That's just the truth. Balance is when one thing equals the other to the exact number. Short of taking each class and making attacks be almost the same, just named different, you will never have balance.

    With that said, the classes seem to be closer now than they ever have been before. I am pretty happy with the parity that melee and ranged have within callings. I also believe that the only difference between the hardcore raiders and more casuals is how they have fun. Hardcore raiders have fun eeking the most performance that they can out of their class. Casual raiders have fun just playing the game. Each have their pluses and minuses, but you shouldn't get upset because you are trying to play like a hardcore raider when at heart you are a more casual player. You can also be casually hardcore, and that's fine.

    My point is that if you're running low on DPS and need more, don't get mad at the game. Just strap on your belt and learn what specs need to be run to overcome that obstacle. It's that easy!
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  14. #14
    Ascendant Byona's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by intrinsc View Post
    It will always be like this. The fact that Rift has such a diverse soul system makes it even more unbalanced. It will never be truly balanced. That's just the truth. Balance is when one thing equals the other to the exact number. Short of taking each class and making attacks be almost the same, just named different, you will never have balance.

    With that said, the classes seem to be closer now than they ever have been before. I am pretty happy with the parity that melee and ranged have within callings. I also believe that the only difference between the hardcore raiders and more casuals is how they have fun. Hardcore raiders have fun eeking the most performance that they can out of their class. Casual raiders have fun just playing the game. Each have their pluses and minuses, but you shouldn't get upset because you are trying to play like a hardcore raider when at heart you are a more casual player. You can also be casually hardcore, and that's fine.

    My point is that if you're running low on DPS and need more, don't get mad at the game. Just strap on your belt and learn what specs need to be run to overcome that obstacle. It's that easy!
    I agree DPS wise the game is more balanced than it has ever been since release.
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  15. #15
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    How is this different than any other MMO with endgame raiding PVE content? If you want to down content without waiting until it's nerfed to oblivion or a new expansion invalidates it, you need to come to the realization that you may not get to play what you want to play if it's not optimal; note that "optimal" can vary and there can be 3-4 different viable specs, but there will always be something (e.g. running pure Champion on a single target fight, or using some strange mix of souls that don't work together) that just isn't viable in raids, although you might be able to use it for soloing or even 5-mans.

    That's how MMOs work. At least in Rift you usually have several choices. I played WoW for a few years and you had much less choice, usually only one viable DPS spec, sometimes two depending on how badly the other one was nerfed or specific fights. I infinitely prefer Rift where (as a Warrior) I have my choice of Riftblade if I want simplistic melee, Paragon if I want complex melee, Champion if I want AOE, Tempest if I want ranged, or maybe even something like 61 Warlord if I want something that could work but isn't great. I'll take that any day over being forced to play an Arms Warrior to DPS, because Fury was rubbish (and before that being forced to go Fury because Arms was terrible) like it was in WoW.
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