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Thread: Raid Item Query

  1. #1
    Soulwalker Rapidfyre's Avatar
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    Default Raid Item Query

    The item Touch of Agony (General Typhiria TDQ) is a confusing one to me.

    This item upgrades to a relic with physical crit on it which makes it very low on the BiS lists. Not only that but it requires the heart of the hardest boss in the game (dont get this thread locked you troll bastards =P).

    I don't really understand why it requires the heart of Regulos any way. when you look at the upgraded version of this weapon the skin is definately from the plane of air and looks like one of crucias feathers

    So. A couple of suggestions (in order of preference),

    1. Change the physical crit to crit power (at around the mid to high 50 range before upgrade). Then change the skin on the weapon to reflect the fact that you got it through killing a boss from the plane of death.

    2. Change the physical crit to Attack Power (low to high 30's before upgrade). Then change the requirement to the heart of Crucia, keep the skin and change the proc to healing making it a BiS support weapon (and still a decent dps weapon).

    With both of these changes i would suggest making it Unique-Equip.

    With the changes that have already been made to TDQ loot i was very surprised that Trion did not change the stats on this weapon.

    Feedback from an elusive dev on this one would also be appreciated.
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  2. #2
    Champion of Telara DemonRage's Avatar
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    I'm a warrior and i support this. As the only 1h weapon that upgrades it is a crime that it takes a drop from the currrent hardest boss, and has stats subpar on any melee characters list of useful stats.

    When i heard they were making it so that only one heart was needed, i was really hoping it was crucia..... imagine my disappointment when i logged in and looked at my blade...

    damn you regulos, you screwed me over one last time.
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  3. #3
    Sword of Telara MealRain's Avatar
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    Itemization is itemization.

    The stats of the upgraded item are completely on par with what they should be. It's not Trion's fault we've all decided to hate crit.

    1) the weapon base drops from the 10man, much easier to acquire. The dragons themselves drop relics that are slightly better and rightly so imo.

    2) If all the gear had CP and AP, we've have all the same stuff, and no variety, losing a key component in the game itself.

    I highly doubt this will be changed for the above reasons. If it was a case of a tank stat or severly reduced stats, then it would be fixed. But it's stat allocation, as is, is on par.
    Last edited by MealRain; 02-05-2013 at 05:55 PM.
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  4. #4
    Soulwalker Rapidfyre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MealRain View Post
    The stats of the upgraded item are completely on par with what they should be. It's not Trion's fault we've all decided to hate crit.
    Am i getting this right? your saying that its not Trions fault that they made crit scale so poorly that anyone gaining crit from anything other than base stats and talents is doing it wrong?

    Have a crit weapon in the game if you like just dont make it a relic or upgradeable to one.

    Quote Originally Posted by MealRain View Post
    The dragons themselves drop relics that are slightly better and rightly so imo.
    So your saying that bosses that drop the upgrade piece should drop relics that are better than the ones that cost 500p + and item dropped from that same boss? Why?


    Quote Originally Posted by MealRain View Post
    2) If all the gear had CP and AP, we've have all the same stuff, and no variety, losing a key component in the game itself.
    Um we just had AP and crit in vanilla from memory and i dont remember people saying it was all the same... Also stacking CP or AP is dependant on your role, and they can vary the base stats on the weapons to give more variety. Also referring to Item Crit as a key component of the game is just silly. (if they were going to make item crit a key component they could just reduce crit gained from talents and raid buffs/debuffs and then change its scaling to the same totals we end up with now. But thats a lot more work than changing one item and it would reduce the need for things like Lethal rogues which again would reduce raid composition variety and it seems variety is something your fond of).

    The weapon is reasonably easy to aquire at the base form but it is also penalised with low Dex. The fact is the upgrade is very difficult to acquire and reasonably expensive and the reward for all that effort and plat is... pitiful.

    It is for these reasons that the item SHOULD be modified
    Level 60 Guardian Rogue Rapidfyre <Blitz> PvP rank 80
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  5. #5
    Champion of Telara DemonRage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MealRain View Post
    Itemization is itemization.

    The stats of the upgraded item are completely on par with what they should be. It's not Trion's fault we've all decided to hate crit.

    1) the weapon base drops from the 10man, much easier to acquire. The dragons themselves drop relics that are slightly better and rightly so imo.

    2) If all the gear had CP and AP, we've have all the same stuff, and no variety, losing a key component in the game itself.

    I highly doubt this will be changed for the above reasons. If it was a case of a tank stat or severly reduced stats, then it would be fixed. But it's stat allocation, as is, is on par.
    The OP does make good points, and interestingly i would have thought since you made the BIS list you would at least have agreed on some points. It is Trions fault we hate crit, because they made the stat so worthless its at the bottom of a list of stats that affect our dps. This is reflected in your stat weighting after all.

    Your first point can be addressed as this, and this is echoing the OP's response. we are not just needing the heart from the current hardest boss in the game, but on top of that having to pay up 500 plat. To some this is no problem, to others this is alot of money. Why is this relic, based on your list 4th for warriors, requiring this much of a currency investment if it is not significantly above the others?

    Your second point, Trion already nullified crit to the point where even rogues stay away from it. so technically there are only 2 stats we should focus on. Crit is just a stat that is filler and does offer some benefit, but not enough to trump other stats.
    Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward,
    Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both,
    For a wounded man shall say to his assailant "If I die you are forgiven...."

    "If I live, I will kill YOU"
    such is the rule of honour.

  6. #6
    Rift Chaser Sir Thrace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MealRain View Post
    Itemization is itemization.

    The stats of the upgraded item are completely on par with what they should be. It's not Trion's fault we've all decided to hate crit.

    Ummm... the last person i would expect to see this post from is you. I love your work with the BiS spreadsheets but am I to think now that the only reason virtually every item on your spreadsheet that is Crit focused has a lower rating score because we've all decided to hate crit? Or is it because TRION screwed up crit scaling?

    I mean I dont think those crit power gloves outscore the physical crit RELIC gloves because we hate crit... amirite?
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  7. #7
    Ascendant MoonfireSpam's Avatar
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    tbh when I heard that they were making it so that the weapons would take just one heart to upgrade instead of both, I was expecting it to take either dragon's heart.

    I personally got screwed over by the change, being a rogue who already had crucia's heart... and seeing how there are ZERO rogue weapons that upgrades with her heart... well.

    Picked it up when weapons required both... now its a paperweight unless I want to upgrade a caster weapon.
    So long, and thanks for all the fish~

  8. #8
    Ascendant Primalthirst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoonfireSpam View Post
    now its a paperweight unless I want to upgrade a caster weapon.
    Tank with a staff, you know you want to!

    OT: It requires the Heart of Regulos because it requires the Heart of Regulos
    The itemisation has frequently been very suspect in this game and has reached new heights with the distribution of Air and Death models in the current tier. I mean seriously how hard is it to put them in the respective instances?

    As for people not valuing Crit, it's very dependent on gear level and our current gear level is quite low as a community. I think you'll find if we get to Crit Power levels of 1200+ that people will start wanting Crit Chance items again. Not all specs, and not all the time. But for certain slots and specs Crit Chance items could quite possibly be BiS.
    Nope.

  9. #9
    Soulwalker Rapidfyre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primalthirst View Post
    As for people not valuing Crit, it's very dependent on gear level and our current gear level is quite low as a community. I think you'll find if we get to Crit Power levels of 1200+ that people will start wanting Crit Chance items again. Not all specs, and not all the time. But for certain slots and specs Crit Chance items could quite possibly be BiS.
    That may be so but if that does eventually become the case, the item in question will be a Dreaming Star or two because it will be 1 or more raid tiers lower than what is BiS. So the argument is not really relevant yet and certainly not relevant to this particular item.

    All that said I hope your right and eventually we do have 3 stats that we are playing with for best DPS output. But for now and for this item changes should be made.
    Last edited by Rapidfyre; 02-06-2013 at 02:57 AM.
    Level 60 Guardian Rogue Rapidfyre <Blitz> PvP rank 80
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  10. #10
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoonfireSpam View Post
    tbh when I heard that they were making it so that the weapons would take just one heart to upgrade instead of both, I was expecting it to take either dragon's heart.

    I personally got screwed over by the change, being a rogue who already had crucia's heart... and seeing how there are ZERO rogue weapons that upgrades with her heart... well.
    I've never played a game where raiders didn't complain about itemization, so usually I ignore it because at the end of the day, there's only one BiS so variety is required. Not everything can have the best stats.

    With that being said the Itemization in this expansion is by far the worst I've seen in any game. There are no raid 1 hander drops in all of FT except for the relic off Crucia. In EE there are some raid 1 handers but they seem rare.

    Right now every mage in guild has a relic staff or 1 hander because they drop so often and there's nothing else to spend the Crucia hearts on. None of our rogues have anything but expert 1 handers because nothing's dropped. It was an issue before the patch, but now that melee's been improved things like this make a huge difference.
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  11. #11
    Champion Highland's Avatar
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    I have an heart of crucia in my bank, being useless for rogues can't upgrade anything with the heart of crucia, apart from that I do have 2 of those touch of agony's, 1 already upgraded with a regulos heart.

    Imho it's time we remove the need for regulos/crucia hearts and just change it to 1 heart in total to stop this stupid heart stuff, currently the amount of items that are upgradeable is abysmal anyway and for our guild we nearly have all upgradable weapons upgraded (I think we have 4 more daggers or something, all regulos hearts ...)

    Apart from that, I am not even that disappointed with the 96 pc on it, its nearly 1% extra crit so thats not even bad....
    Last edited by Highland; 02-08-2013 at 03:36 AM.

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  12. #12
    Ascendant mo0trix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MealRain View Post
    Itemization is itemization.

    The stats of the upgraded item are completely on par with what they should be. It's not Trion's fault we've all decided to hate crit.

    1) the weapon base drops from the 10man, much easier to acquire. The dragons themselves drop relics that are slightly better and rightly so imo.

    2) If all the gear had CP and AP, we've have all the same stuff, and no variety, losing a key component in the game itself.

    I highly doubt this will be changed for the above reasons. If it was a case of a tank stat or severly reduced stats, then it would be fixed. But it's stat allocation, as is, is on par.
    It's not Trions fault? Was crit power not Trions work then?

    The fact of the matter is this item might be fine in it's epic form, but as soon as you get a regulos heart for this, it should become a HELL of a lot better... and that crit should either be added to with some AP or CP to reflect that.

    Itemization is not Trions strong point and this will be yet another one that's been overlooked on stats... and has definately been mislabelled for a regulos heart.

  13. #13
    Shield of Telara Kaybriar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayi View Post
    With that being said the Itemization in this expansion is by far the worst I've seen in any game. There are no raid 1 hander drops in all of FT except for the relic off Crucia. In EE there are some raid 1 handers but they seem rare.

    Right now every mage in guild has a relic staff or 1 hander because they drop so often and there's nothing else to spend the Crucia hearts on. None of our rogues have anything but expert 1 handers because nothing's dropped. It was an issue before the patch, but now that melee's been improved things like this make a huge difference.
    ^This x 10000

    Rogues and Warriors have it bad while some of our mages even have multiple relics. We are sitting on Crucia hearts because there is nothing to use them on. We have only killed Crucia 3-4 times and already have nothing to use the Hearts on. Seriously? That is just plain terrible itemization.

    Furthermore, I have no idea why warriors have such horribly limited options for weapon relic upgrades. Did Trion forget to put some in?
    Kaybye ~

  14. #14
    Telaran Lioninya's Avatar
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    I to have this "weapon" sitting next to the paperweight I call crucias heart. I've even gone as far as putting in a ticket to give the heart to a caster that could actually use it cause as stated before rogues simply have no use for it once they implemented these changes. I beg trion to either give me something to do with the heart or at least let me give it to someone who CAN USE IT! For this item to require the current end bosses drop and for the stats to be so dismal is simply absurd (PC that is). If it was changed to AP or CP then I wouldn't have to hear the giggles every time our raid lead asks for someone to link and item that is upgradable with the hardest heart to get in the game(not like I would actually want it I simply link it for the giggles). Itemazation feels like a trion troll at times and I wish they would fix this. I have heard about a extremely rare drop off Goloch that is upgradable and USEFUL so fingers crossed and here's hopin.

  15. #15
    Ascendant Ianto Jones's Avatar
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    Why does a staff that drops off the Air plane dragon have a fleshy egg with a miniature Grugonim inside of it? It is far and away the most grievous error in two years of Rift.

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