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Thread: Expert Tanking

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Default Expert Tanking

    Hey Folks,

    Quick question in regards to tanking experts in Rift: Storm Legion. Currently, I'm trying to learn the tanking involved with these and - although I have DPS'ed through all of the instances - I'm having trouble with the tanking portion. That being stated, I'm most experienced as a Tempest Warrior and have tried my hand at VK tanking as well as Reaver tanking - with the suggested builds by RoughRaptor.

    Currently, I'm sitting at 400 Toughness, 862 Dodge, 1243 Attack Power, 57380 Armor, 1152 Strength, and 32360 HP as a Reaver. From what I'm gathering, although I meet the required stats for tanking, a higher HP is desired. Furthermore, as I tank - I'm throwing up every shield available to a Reaver yet it seems that I'm taking a large amount of damage regardless.

    I don't have any runes currently installed on armor and am just looking for general advice on what I should seek before hopping into an instance as a tank. I'd be thankful for any input you folks can offer. Thanks again!

  2. #2
    Rift Chaser
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    Your HP is incredibly low and is your biggest detriment. You should focus on a tanking sigil (or source machine) with end heavy essences. Runes for your gear will also go a long way. There are several crafted items that are near BiS depending on the aug you use. Purchase essences off the torvan or lycini rep vendors at the lower faction levels, get gear from the world event vendor using infinity stones, run the new chronicle daily for extra IS and some pretty decent gear.

    You should be looking to get your HP to 42-44k buffed before you are really viable to tank any of the experts. Also, I wouldn't recommend a reaver build. 61 VK/15 PL or 58PL are probably better options and are much easier to use.
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    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Also, when you first go into experts, I recommend marking a priority kill target for the DPS, rather than having them AoE everything down. If you use a defensive cooldown at the start of each pull, it should wear off right around the time that first mob dies, which really helps to ease the incoming damage.

  4. #4
    Soulwalker
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    Thanks so much for the reply JorlynEndless,

    I'll work on that immediately. Could you elaborate a bit on what you mean by "end heavy essences". What runes would you recommend to better myself for tanking. And could you give me the best rotation for mitigation skills when using the VK/Pal souls?

    Thanks again for the reply!

  5. #5
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    Also, when you first go into experts, I recommend marking a priority kill target for the DPS, rather than having them AoE everything down. If you use a defensive cooldown at the start of each pull, it should wear off right around the time that first mob dies, which really helps to ease the incoming damage.
    Good idea, I'll do so. Using the VK/Pal build, I know that that there are several absorbing shields, which should be the priority for a situation like that?

  6. #6
    Telaran
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    For spec I'd recommend going 58 Pala. The damage reduction and full heal cooldowns have saved my *** many times when tanking with bad gear.

    I'm not sure what gear you have so I'll just put a basic starter list, at least this is how I started off. Luckily you already have the hard part which is the toughness gear. Source machine + seal should be the priority.

    For a basic tanking source machine you should buy a set of blue level 56 lessers from torvan/lycini vendor - they cost empyreal sourcestones (if you have the torvan/lycini rep you can buy the level 60 blue essences for IS, even better). You also might be able to find some decent ones on AH. Focus on high endurance and block first. (You can also buy a starting tank cape from here if you don't have one)

    For a seal, the second best (unshakable defiance) is good enough to start with and is far cheaper than the best one.

    You should then look at crafting hardened rhenium greathelm and belt, as well as the hardened madrosa striker and hardened chrysoprase knuckles (2x).

    For augments, the Stellar Impenetrable augment is the best but if you don't have much cash you can get the next tier down to start with - an empyrean impenetrable or empyrean rugged augment will be fine (again, to start with).

    If you haven't already, you should get 2 pieces of the expert tank gear set and a tanking synergy crystal for the 65 endurance bonus.

    Rune wise, go for endurance or block where possible, otherwise strength. Auroral (or gleaming if short on cash) resolute runes on chest, feet and gloves will add a good chunk of endurance. Auroral/gleaming adamant or thwarting rune on shield.

    You will obviously want to upgrade all of this gear to BiS gear over time if you're serious about tanking, but this is a good starting point and it should give you enough stats to be tanking experts decently.

    Another tip right now would be find a good chloro healer you can trust and run experts with him/her. Also don't be afraid to use a support healer if you're still taking too much damage - it really helps out. With this setup you can probably tank experts successfully with ~38k hp.
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    There really should be a baseline guide for new tanks that doesn't involve spending huge amounts of plat on expensive crafted gear; I would go as far as to say if the best way to be Expert-ready as a tank is to buy crafted gear, there are HUGE balance issues with the damage Expert mobs are doing. Tanks alone shouldn't be required to outgear or overgear an instance, or have to spend extra money on expensive crafted gear to run the content that is meant to be an alternative way to gear up where you can't buy those expensive pieces.

    The baseline SHOULD be the IS gear for tanking, with 56 tank essences from Torvan/Lycini rep, a middle-of-the-road seal (not sure if there's a blue Endurance seal, if there is then that), and green/blue enchants (I forget what they're called in this game, you know what I mean). Now I don't know what that provides off the top of my head, as tanking is my offspec and while I have 375 Toughness I don't have all tanking gear yet and as such won't tank a dungeon, but with approximately that baseline I'm just around 37k health, which is seemingly too low to run an Expert.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by wayne62682 View Post
    There really should be a baseline guide for new tanks that doesn't involve spending huge amounts of plat on expensive crafted gear; I would go as far as to say if the best way to be Expert-ready as a tank is to buy crafted gear, there are HUGE balance issues with the damage Expert mobs are doing. Tanks alone shouldn't be required to outgear or overgear an instance, or have to spend extra money on expensive crafted gear to run the content that is meant to be an alternative way to gear up where you can't buy those expensive pieces.

    The baseline SHOULD be the IS gear for tanking, with 56 tank essences from Torvan/Lycini rep, a middle-of-the-road seal (not sure if there's a blue Endurance seal, if there is then that), and green/blue enchants (I forget what they're called in this game, you know what I mean). Now I don't know what that provides off the top of my head, as tanking is my offspec and while I have 375 Toughness I don't have all tanking gear yet and as such won't tank a dungeon, but with approximately that baseline I'm just around 37k health, which is seemingly too low to run an Expert.
    I think this solution is the same one prescribed for people that run pugs: run with a coordinated guild group. Lots of guilds (even self-proclaimed casual guilds) were clearing experts in terrible gear.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahov View Post
    I think this solution is the same one prescribed for people that run pugs: run with a coordinated guild group. Lots of guilds (even self-proclaimed casual guilds) were clearing experts in terrible gear.
    I agree, but IMO that shows a fundamental flaw with the direction of the game. If LFD is meant to be the primary tool used to run dungeons (as it is in WoW, and usually is in any MMO that introduces one), then things must be balanced around an average-level pug. People deride WoW for "dumbing down" the game, but few realize that part of why that HAD to happen was because you were expected to run dungeons with 4 random strangers (and WoW made it preferably with a +5% damage/healing/health buff for up to 3 randoms), so the content couldn't be extremely difficult because you weren't expected to always have a "coordinated guild group" for anything outside of the raids (which later they introduced the Raid Finder as a way for those without guild groups or who couldn't make their guild times to still raid).

    A major difference I'm seeing between here and "there" is that the LFD doesn't seem to be fully embraced, despite the fact you're forced to use it (whether with a full group or not, you have to queue with it). A lot of the fights are pretty darn challenging to do in a full pug, while they might be slightly (or much) easier with a guild group that uses Vent or whatever voice comms. There's a disconnect there. Rightly or wrongly, WoW embraced the notion that people would be typically grouping with random players across different servers and adjusted the content accordingly to vastly increase the success rate knowing that you'd be in a random group with random people of varying skill levels.

    Nobody wants things to be stupid easy (and a lot of the complaints about WoW came from doing entry-level heroics in third-tier raid gear; similar to how stupid easy pre-SL experts were after nerfs and gear increases; even Wrath heroics were decent challenges at launch), but things need to be balanced around pugs, not guild groups.
    Last edited by wayne62682; 12-29-2012 at 06:55 AM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiye View Post
    Currently, I'm sitting at 400 Toughness, 862 Dodge, 1243 Attack Power, 57380 Armor, 1152 Strength, and 32360 HP as a Reaver. From what I'm gathering, although I meet the required stats for tanking, a higher HP is desired. Furthermore, as I tank - I'm throwing up every shield available to a Reaver yet it seems that I'm taking a large amount of damage regardless.
    Healer here.

    I would immediately drop group if I found myself grouped in a PUG expert with a tank that has 32k HP. Without hesitation. It wouldn't be anything personal. It's just an indication that the chance of success will be 0. Heck, without even trying to get tank gear, I was pushing 40k HP in my tank spec when I was done with running normals, just from drops and level 60 green essences.

    Focus on getting as much endurance/HP as possible, then worry about block and whatever else. I'm assuming you have 300 hit (even though you don't say so). You wouldn't generate much aggro without being able to hit anything.

    Also, run some normal dungeons to get the hang of some of the mechanics. Just because you meet the stat requirements, doesn't mean you're an "expert" ready to run expert dungeons.

  11. #11
    Plane Touched chris051599's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wayne62682 View Post
    I agree, but IMO that shows a fundamental flaw with the direction of the game. If LFD is meant to be the primary tool used to run dungeons (as it is in WoW, and usually is in any MMO that introduces one), then things must be balanced around an average-level pug. People deride WoW for "dumbing down" the game, but few realize that part of why that HAD to happen was because you were expected to run dungeons with 4 random strangers (and WoW made it preferably with a +5% damage/healing/health buff for up to 3 randoms), so the content couldn't be extremely difficult because you weren't expected to always have a "coordinated guild group" for anything outside of the raids (which later they introduced the Raid Finder as a way for those without guild groups or who couldn't make their guild times to still raid).

    A major difference I'm seeing between here and "there" is that the LFD doesn't seem to be fully embraced, despite the fact you're forced to use it (whether with a full group or not, you have to queue with it). A lot of the fights are pretty darn challenging to do in a full pug, while they might be slightly (or much) easier with a guild group that uses Vent or whatever voice comms. There's a disconnect there. Rightly or wrongly, WoW embraced the notion that people would be typically grouping with random players across different servers and adjusted the content accordingly to vastly increase the success rate knowing that you'd be in a random group with random people of varying skill levels.

    Nobody wants things to be stupid easy (and a lot of the complaints about WoW came from doing entry-level heroics in third-tier raid gear; similar to how stupid easy pre-SL experts were after nerfs and gear increases; even Wrath heroics were decent challenges at launch), but things need to be balanced around pugs, not guild groups.
    You do realize there are REGULAR 60 dungeons. You could try running those until appropriately geared for the next level content.

    The flaw is not the game design, but your expectations on just being able to breeze through content. You could tank (barely) the regular dungeons in your set up and be successful with a PUG group.
    9/9

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris051599 View Post
    You do realize there are REGULAR 60 dungeons. You could try running those until appropriately geared for the next level content.

    The flaw is not the game design, but your expectations on just being able to breeze through content. You could tank (barely) the regular dungeons in your set up and be successful with a PUG group.
    You're missing the point. The game needs to be balanced around reasonable expectations based on gear that's readily available WITHOUT requiring tanks (and only tanks) to spend time/plat on crafted gear.

    Personally, I don't care myself. I run expert dungeons as DPS and acquire a tank set through that. The OP however wants to tank and the game, for whatever reason, puts undue requirements on him due to pugs, instead of being correctly balanced around pugs being the main form of running dungeons.

    As i said, expectation gap. In a game where there is a random dungeon tool that groups you with random players of varying skill levels, the content needs to be adjusted appropriately to be doable by random players of varying skill levels without people busting out the tired old saw of "run with a guild group". That is no longer an acceptable answer.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by wayne62682 View Post
    As i said, expectation gap. In a game where there is a random dungeon tool that groups you with random players of varying skill levels, the content needs to be adjusted appropriately to be doable by random players of varying skill levels without people busting out the tired old saw of "run with a guild group". That is no longer an acceptable answer.
    I'd rather not have dungeons tuned to the lowest common denominator, which is certainly what you're asking for. There should absolutely be skill involved with running experts, and asking for dungeons to be tuned down to accomodate people that have no business being in there is laughable. If you tune the experts down to make it so "varying skill levels" (read:bad or awful) then GOOD groups will have zero challenge.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by arkz View Post
    For spec I'd recommend going 58 Pala. The damage reduction and full heal cooldowns have saved my *** many times when tanking with bad gear.

    I'm not sure what gear you have so I'll just put a basic starter list, at least this is how I started off. Luckily you already have the hard part which is the toughness gear. Source machine + seal should be the priority.

    For a basic tanking source machine you should buy a set of blue level 56 lessers from torvan/lycini vendor - they cost empyreal sourcestones (if you have the torvan/lycini rep you can buy the level 60 blue essences for IS, even better). You also might be able to find some decent ones on AH. Focus on high endurance and block first. (You can also buy a starting tank cape from here if you don't have one)

    For a seal, the second best (unshakable defiance) is good enough to start with and is far cheaper than the best one.

    You should then look at crafting hardened rhenium greathelm and belt, as well as the hardened madrosa striker and hardened chrysoprase knuckles (2x).

    For augments, the Stellar Impenetrable augment is the best but if you don't have much cash you can get the next tier down to start with - an empyrean impenetrable or empyrean rugged augment will be fine (again, to start with).

    If you haven't already, you should get 2 pieces of the expert tank gear set and a tanking synergy crystal for the 65 endurance bonus.

    Rune wise, go for endurance or block where possible, otherwise strength. Auroral (or gleaming if short on cash) resolute runes on chest, feet and gloves will add a good chunk of endurance. Auroral/gleaming adamant or thwarting rune on shield.

    You will obviously want to upgrade all of this gear to BiS gear over time if you're serious about tanking, but this is a good starting point and it should give you enough stats to be tanking experts decently.

    Another tip right now would be find a good chloro healer you can trust and run experts with him/her. Also don't be afraid to use a support healer if you're still taking too much damage - it really helps out. With this setup you can probably tank experts successfully with ~38k hp.
    Would recomend the adamant over the thwarting, also adamant can go on weapons as well, so toss one on your main hand for even more end.
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  15. #15
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by wayne62682 View Post
    You're missing the point. The game needs to be balanced around reasonable expectations based on gear that's readily available WITHOUT requiring tanks (and only tanks) to spend time/plat on crafted gear.
    The gear I put in my post I chose simply because it is a quick way to gear up without having to farm - it can all be acquired in an afternoon. There are other ways to gear up and the crafted stuff isn't strictly necessary, it's just the fastest way. It's also very cheap, apart from the rings maybe, so I don't see how it's an issue.

    I agree with you that tanks are more reliant on gear than other roles, it's just the nature of the game and it's something you have to accept if you're going to be tanking.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lewin View Post
    [...] also adamant can go on weapons as well, so toss one on your main hand for even more end.
    Wow. I'm embarassed to say I didn't know this. Was it always this way? I'm sure I read 'totem, shield' when I was looking over the runes. Well, thanks!
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