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Thread: An Allstar Idea...

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    Soulwalker Bloodypoo's Avatar
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    Default An Allstar Idea...

    This thread should probably be in Dungeons+Raids but as I could see potential in this, it's best to have more views and input. I believe this will really strengthen our community and put us out there to hopefully attract more players to keep this game strong. So here goes...

    In professional sports (be it NHL,NBA, NFL etc.), there is an event held every year called the All-Star game where best players from every team in the league come together to form an all-star team. Akin to this, we could set up an event for end-game raids. The general logistics could be as follows:

    2 Raid teams (40 players total; 20 players in each)
    Raid: Frozen Tempest and/or Endless Eclipse

    Pooling
    Ideally, we want to spread the love around as best as possible. Taking NA Shards for example - From each shard, the community of that shard should pick representatives from their top raiding guilds. For the 8 NA shards - that means 4 shards will have 6 reps and another 4 shards will have 4 reps (again, 40 players total; 2 raid teams). It would be easier for the EU shards to do this as they have the perfect number of shards.

    Role-based Sampling
    It would probably be a lot easier to select the representatives through a randomized role-to-shard assignment. I could see this part to be somewhat of a conundrum as different classes can partake in different roles. Using Excel as a tool, we can approach this in two ways...

    a) Role-based
    Try to come up with a general raid composition that will fit best for the raids. Then with these set roles, randomly match them with a shard. Pick a representative that will fit that role from each of the top guilds selected to represent the shard. This method is more class-blind but a little more rigid to changes and adjustments as well. Rough example...

    Team 1
    Shard 1a - Tank 1
    Shard 2a - Support
    ....
    Shard 8 - ST Healer
    Shard 1b - AE Healer
    ...
    Shard 4b - Tank 2


    Probably the more popular and more flexible option would be the following Class-based sampling.

    b) Class-based
    Same sampling/randomization method as above but with classes. Ideally - 5 from each class, roles can then be adjusted/changed accordingly to allow for more flexibility.

    Team 1
    Shard 1a - Warrior 1
    Shard 2a - Mage 2
    ....
    Shard 8 - Cleric 3
    Shard 1b - Cleric 1
    ...
    Shard 4b - Rogue 4


    **Note: Once teams are made, it would probably be best to have an All-star team captain for each team (Raid leader role).

    Scheduling and Transfer

    For the teams to come together, the represented players will transfer to a designated shard for a week (event will last for one week as to not take you too far and too long away from home shard for regular progression). Two options come to mind again...a) players transferred to new shard will create and represent their own guild (for bragging rights) or b) every player must join the guild as named after their all-star team. The transfer should happen before the new cycle (Tuesday midnight/Wednesday morning). The raid competition will start at a time most suitable for everyone to accommodate time zone differences (for NA All-stars - will probably start somewhere around 6-7pm SERVER PST). Hopefully by the start of the new cycle, teams will have completed the raid dungeons, which brings me to the next aspect of the games...

    Score/Competition/Prize
    Aside from the fun, novel and exciting aspect these games will bring, there should probably be an extra incentive for everyone to compete at their best (aside from bragging rights and semi-decent lewts). Hence, there should be a scoring system...

    Again, two options come to mind: a) Boss for boss kill scoring - whoever downs each of the bosses first gets 1 pt.,,problem with this method is it may result in a tie with the even number of bosses (quick-fix: team with first end boss kill, probably just Crucia at this point, will be awarded 2 pts). b) First to clear raid dungeon scoring - simple.

    At this point, I cannot think of a prize reward that will be best suited for something like this. First thing that comes to mind is Plat reward. But this is hardly feasible as there are 20 players on each team to share that reward. On top of this, each player entering will probably have to contribute something like 20-50plat to a large prize pool for it to be considered significant. In the end, it would just be one team taking the plat of the other team. But again, this is some thing completely extraneous and can be done even without.

    Organization/PR/Streaming/Voice Chat Logistics
    If this event does garner enough interest, it will definitely be one that the whole community can tune into and feel apart of even if you are not selected to be in the games. I will first require (probably not myself), a group of individuals who can actually organize and promote something this large in scale and spread word to across the whole Rift community.

    Preferably, these individuals can be the commentary team as well to commentate on the live feeds of the competition. In terms of how just this commentary+stream aspect is to be done will require input/ideas from everyone. Obviously, the commentary cannot be part of the All-star roster as they should be in a 3rd party voice chat of their own concentrating on the game. However, one of these players will have to provide us with the live feed. This aspect is still early and maturing, so please do provide ideas.

    On topic, players of the teams will probably be on a voice chat server together. Again, the logistics for this will probably be picked up as the event gets rolling as this is easy to organize.

    Concluding Statements

    Thus far, this is all I can think of that would go into an event like this. If I missed any other aspects, please provide your thoughts, ideas and comment. While something as grande as this (with the focus being end-game raiding) can be quite competitive, we want to keep this as fun and light-hearted as possible. I do believe we have the community and players to pull this off as I have seen very enthusiastic players from many guilds across shards. In the end, we're here to promote and bring together our community and help boost a game we all love playing - Rift.

    **Final note to expand upon: PvP torunament.
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    Prophet of Telara Arthritis's Avatar
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    Has anyone seen my alphabet? I swear I left it around here somewhere....

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    RIFT Guide Writer RoughRaptorsOld's Avatar
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    Reposting what I said + more...

    I....definitely don't think this would work. Sorry. People wouldn't give up their guild for a week for multiple reasons.

    1: Progression, gotta kill Regulos
    2: Loot, how will it be done?
    3: With players being gone from their guilds, that sets their guild back for the week without you being there
    4: It would be too hard to nominate people, many arguments will be had

    And as Intrinsc said. A guild has a synergy that is from playing with each other for long periods of time. Lose that synergy, and you lose a lot of that skill. It's hard to work with people you don't know.

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    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vioarr View Post
    I miss Best of the Best tourney from EQ. Sorry, what were we talking about?
    Pie.

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    Ascendant No_Exit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoughRaptors View Post
    A guild has a synergy that is from playing with each other for long periods of time. Lose that synergy, and you lose a lot of that skill. It's hard to work with people you don't know.
    This alone is reason not to even attempt this idea. Skill of a player is often very intertwined with both the skill of the guild and how they mesh with their guild. Not only that, but many players may appear worse or better then they actually are based upon who they play with and the tag they wear. Unlike FPS games, its much harder to judge individual skill and when picking "all-stars" you will have people picked... not because they are necessarily the best of their class, but because they have name or guild recognition.

    One of the best players i have EVER seen in this game plays for a guild that isnt involved in the race for world firsts. I could mention their name and very few would know who they are. This is common place. Players don't always choose to compete as hard or choose to raid with lesser skill players because of previous friendships or other such reasons.

    Plain and simple... this idea would become a drama filled disaster that would never actually happen if nothing else then schedule conflicts and the lack of desire to play outside your own guild and give up progression of any sort.

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    RIFT Guide Writer intrinsc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by No_Exit View Post
    This alone is reason not to even attempt this idea. Skill of a player is often very intertwined with both the skill of the guild and how they mesh with their guild. Not only that, but many players may appear worse or better then they actually are based upon who they play with and the tag they wear. Unlike FPS games, its much harder to judge individual skill and when picking "all-stars" you will have people picked... not because they are necessarily the best of their class, but because they have name or guild recognition.

    One of the best players i have EVER seen in this game plays for a guild that isnt involved in the race for world firsts. I could mention their name and very few would know who they are. This is common place. Players don't always choose to compete as hard or choose to raid with lesser skill players because of previous friendships or other such reasons.

    Plain and simple... this idea would become a drama filled disaster that would never actually happen if nothing else then schedule conflicts and the lack of desire to play outside your own guild and give up progression of any sort.
    I've noticed a lot of players in this game have this thing where they like to stay in a guild where most players don't come close to their skill level because they like knowing they're the best.
    "I love being a father, but there are some things I miss: Silence, the absence of noise, one single moment undisturbed by the sounds of a childrens’ TV program called Doc McStuffins. There is no quiet anymore, there is only Doc McStuffins.
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    Soulwalker Bloodypoo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by No_Exit View Post
    This alone is reason not to even attempt this idea. Skill of a player is often very intertwined with both the skill of the guild and how they mesh with their guild. Not only that, but many players may appear worse or better then they actually are based upon who they play with and the tag they wear. Unlike FPS games, its much harder to judge individual skill and when picking "all-stars" you will have people picked... not because they are necessarily the best of their class, but because they have name or guild recognition.

    One of the best players i have EVER seen in this game plays for a guild that isnt involved in the race for world firsts. I could mention their name and very few would know who they are. This is common place. Players don't always choose to compete as hard or choose to raid with lesser skill players because of previous friendships or other such reasons.

    Plain and simple... this idea would become a drama filled disaster that would never actually happen if nothing else then schedule conflicts and the lack of desire to play outside your own guild and give up progression of any sort.
    Like I've stated before in the other thread...

    I totally get that. This is why it's always difficult for Team Russia to win anything because each of the individuals are too busy trying to outdo each other and be heroes (no offense). I just thought this would be an interesting dynamic and see how well players from across shards can come together to achieve something.

    And yes, I can definitely see some discrepancies of opinions that may cause some drama for picking some players over others but I really think we are better and beyond our primitive mind set/self-over-praising. I'm also aware guilds are in crunch-time mode with Endless Eclipse just coming out. But hopefully, guild aren't at the point where losing 1-2 of their players will cause them much of a set back (I certainly hope not anyways).

    As for the loot aspect...well, just use common courtesy. Perhaps with this whole thing, I'm thinking too optimistic and giving people more credit than they deserve in terms of respect for each other? (I don't know). But I definitely think we are above that point of selfishness to actually make something like this happen. Fun minus the egoism.
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  9. #9
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodypoo View Post
    But hopefully, guild aren't at the point where losing 1-2 of their players will cause them much of a set back (I certainly hope not anyways).
    Losing 1-2 of your best players is nothing less than crippling during progression. I can't even imagine why you'd think otherwise.
    Last edited by Muspel; 12-26-2012 at 06:40 PM.

  10. #10
    Sword of Telara Crovack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by intrinsc View Post
    I've noticed a lot of players in this game have this thing where they like to stay in a guild where most players don't come close to their skill level because they like knowing they're the best.
    I'm not sure you can draw that conclusion from the premise, but I'd agree if you mean that they enjoy the big fish in a small pond style of playing. However, I still imagine that a lot of this is still formed around friendships or relationships, some of which transcend the game and include real life bonds. I know, as an example, that I play with my fiance and I have little/no interest in playing somewhere that can't include her. I would also prefer to play with several close friends that I've made over the years. Having recently considered higher tier raiding guilds, there was a substantial lack in practicality of attempting to find anyplace that is strong enough to be an improvement however still in need of multiple players- this was further compounded by the niche raidtimes we desire. Instead, we've redoubled our efforts into improving the guild we're in and recruiting those that are closer to our skill level.

  11. #11
    Champion of Telara Hikos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by intrinsc View Post
    I've noticed a lot of players in this game have this thing where they like to stay in a guild where most players don't come close to their skill level because they like knowing they're the best.
    It couldn't possibly be because of work, school, family, friends, partners, wives, husbands, children, sport, travel or a whole host of other reasons.

    Being a hardcore raider isn't the only answer to gaming, nor does it mean you are the more "talented" player because of an attitude and priority difference.

    There are a plethora of reasons why someone might not want to hardcore raid.

    I've noticed a lot of hardcore raiders in this game have this thing where they feel entitled to talk down and belittle people who are less dedicated to playing rift than themselves because they like to feel good about themselves.

    See look I can make outlandish claims too.

    Thanks mate.

  12. #12
    Sword of Telara Crovack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    Losing 1-2 of your best players is nothing less than crippling during progression. I can't even imagine why you'd think otherwise.
    The best guilds also tend to keep the smallest rosters. If you have 20 people that can and will show up 100% of the time, 2 people missing means 18 manning raids. Not that crucia can't be killed with 19... lol... but yeah, the highest end guilds tend to have the highest raiding percentages per player and thus have the least amount of core raider slots.

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    Plane Touched HmmmNO's Avatar
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    Do this on pts. Less hassle.

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    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    If more guilds streamed I think an idea like this would work, but a lot don't. There's no way to know how good or bad someone is from a guild like NQ or Addiction without being in that guild. In professional sports all-star votes are made by fans who watch the players play, without being able to watch the choices will be made blind.
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