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Thread: "Storm Legion will be more melee friendly"

  1. #1
    dbe
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    General of Telara
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    Default "Storm Legion will be more melee friendly"

    I can't be the only one who remembers this quote/prediction/promise, and it doesn't exactly match reality when it comes to 5-mans and experts.

    Some of the worst offenders:

    3rd boss in SBP.

    Archive - Everything except the lobster.

    Last boss Emp Core.

    The "railing" boss in Tower.

    The throne and the boss with green AOE circles in Boneforge.

    3rd boss in Golem Foundry.

    That's just off the top of my head. They're either taking more damage, having a harder time dealing with mechanics, or losing DPS uptime (the least bad of the three). What happened between then and now? Melee used to be just fine in 1-50 dungeons.

  2. #2
    Plane Touched
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    It is terrible. I played a warrior before SL, before they even had ranged options. I can't think of any dungeon fight where it is not 1000 times better to be ranged. And the especially horrible part is that melee damage is no longer high enough that it can be anywhere competitive when a fight has even the smallest disconnect.

  3. #3
    Shadowlander
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    They can never please everyone - but I'll put in my opinion here anyways.

    I personally love that fact that you have to switch between different builds for different fights. Feels less tiresome to me, but that is of course my individual feeling towards it.

    One thing I have to say; The new bosses and instances is way better thank pre-SL imho ^^
    Quote Originally Posted by Adelea View Post
    welcome to the wonderful world of things not working quite how you expect!

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    Plane Touched
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    Quote Originally Posted by oleerik View Post
    They can never please everyone - but I'll put in my opinion here anyways.

    I personally love that fact that you have to switch between different builds for different fights. Feels less tiresome to me, but that is of course my individual feeling towards it.

    One thing I have to say; The new bosses and instances is way better thank pre-SL imho ^^
    Except that "switching between builds for different fights" does not mean swapping between melee and ranged, it means switching between ranged build 1 and 2.

  5. #5
    Plane Walker
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    Unfortunately, experts in particular can be extremely punishing to melee. They did drop the ball with that. I don't mind melee being harder, but a lot of fights are so anti melee it really cheapens the feeling. There are mechanics that just completely block melee at all. Granted, it doesn't help much that for me as a warrior, tempest dps isn't that far behind melee that in many cases its just better to do tempest then to be in a fight if there are decent sized disconnect periods, even if they do involve moments (damage reduced when moving as tempest)

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    Rift Disciple Plaza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purutzil View Post
    Unfortunately, experts in particular can be extremely punishing to melee. They did drop the ball with that. I don't mind melee being harder, but a lot of fights are so anti melee it really cheapens the feeling. There are mechanics that just completely block melee at all. Granted, it doesn't help much that for me as a warrior, tempest dps isn't that far behind melee that in many cases its just better to do tempest then to be in a fight if there are decent sized disconnect periods, even if they do involve moments (damage reduced when moving as tempest)
    Well even in TotDQ Cyril and Jult are not the friendliest melee bosses. Haven't done FT yet, so don't know about that.

  7. #7
    General of Telara
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    Clearly by melee friendly they mean warrior friendly, and by warrior friendly they meant 'we've given you a ranged spec so problem solved!'

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    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asteldian View Post
    Clearly by melee friendly they mean warrior friendly, and by warrior friendly they meant 'we've given you a ranged spec so problem solved!'
    Also the switching of specs only applies to AE vs st, after every boss fight we have to switch now, just like the rogues and mages, difference is they stay completive dps when they switch.

  9. #9
    Telaran
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    With 2.1 dropping, warrior dps ranged is up a bit, and melee is in a much better place, tanking hopefully has been fixed as well, we shall see... And I think t3 pa is coming out.

  10. #10
    Plane Walker
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    There are quite a few bosses in dungeons that are not melee friendly, but you can melee every boss in the raids that are out.

  11. #11
    Telaran Zeref's Avatar
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    Sure it's fail on a few bosses.

    I melee everything upto Crucia bar 2 bosses in Unhallowed Boneforged, the Throne and "Helix". Up until recently he seems to have now got changed to have a 360 degree cleave which is gg melee, so you just have to man up applying rift strike every 15 secs and hope for the best then stay ranged aftewards. It's not really an issue as my ranged dps in melee spec is still around 8-10k so np, though "We are making SL more melee friendly" was clearly a troll.
    Last edited by Zeref; 12-12-2012 at 06:20 AM.

    JennaHaze - 60 Defiant Warrior - SO - Bloodiron - Active
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    Ascendant nemecis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbe View Post
    What happened between then and now? Melee used to be just fine in 1-50 dungeons.
    you must be new here.

    1-50 dungeons, especially experts were decidedly NOT melee friendly .... or at least, less friendly than they were for ranged. In fact, the outpouring of QQ from back in the day is precisely why Warriors got saddled with Tempest.

    Dungeon designers apparently can't grasp the concept that mechanics can be challenging but don't have to punish melee for existing. Or that if melee must have a difficult time on some encounters, others should be created that challenge ranged in the same manner.

    Sadly, Trion continues to miss the mark in this regard.

  13. #13
    Ascendant Zazen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oleerik View Post
    They can never please everyone - but I'll put in my opinion here anyways.

    I personally love that fact that you have to switch between different builds for different fights. Feels less tiresome to me, but that is of course my individual feeling towards it.

    One thing I have to say; The new bosses and instances is way better thank pre-SL imho ^^
    You never have to switch to a melee build but you most certainly have to switch to a ranged build for certain fights.

    Today's patch notes (for Rogues at least) boosted the damage of melee-based souls so I'm hopeful this boost will make up for the disconnects and inconveniences of running a melee build.

  14. #14
    General of Telara Kriptini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbe View Post
    I can't be the only one who remembers this quote/prediction/promise, and it doesn't exactly match reality when it comes to 5-mans and experts.

    Some of the worst offenders:

    3rd boss in SBP.
    I've meleed just fine on this boss. Telaphalon, right? He drops is ground AoE right after he does Lava Torrent, so that's when you should joust. Then the tank moves him out of the way. Problem solved.

    ...although they just nerfed him, so you don't even have to worry about that anymore.

    Quote Originally Posted by dbe View Post
    Archive - Everything except the lobster.
    You can melee Tzul, just not get behind him. The tank should pull him on the bridge so that Tzul is in range of the walls but the tank is not. You'll have to melee him from the front, but he doesn't cleave, so you just won't get your "behind target" bonuses... assuming you have any.

    Gorger is easy to melee. Just pay attention to your corner and run to it when it glows. Easy.

    The Animator... Shaper... whatever guy, with all the AoEs in the room? You can melee him. The AoEs don't do too much damage, and even if they do, you can always focus on the adds instead.

    Last boss you can also melee, just make sure the tank kites the boss out of the AoEs. Not difficult.

    Quote Originally Posted by dbe View Post
    Last boss Emp Core.
    Meleeing him is easy. Again, as long as you joust (which is a prevalent mechanic in every MMORPG except apparently this one) the mushrooms, you'll be fine. You can stay adjacent to the boss without even getting in the mushrooms as long as you stand in the inner circle and the tank runs around the outer circle. As for getting behind the boss... that may require more work.

    Quote Originally Posted by dbe View Post
    The "railing" boss in Tower.
    I'm going to assume that this is General Thunderscar, in which case, you can totally melee him. Just run out when he does the AoE.

    Quote Originally Posted by dbe View Post
    The throne and the boss with green AOE circles in Boneforge.
    Haven't found a way to melee the Throne yet, so I'll give you that.

    As far as the Forgelord, he can be meleed, but you gotta be careful. Remember that the green AoE follows the boss, so the tank will have to move him quite often. Still definitely manageable.

    Quote Originally Posted by dbe View Post
    3rd boss in Golem Foundry.
    Haha, chasing her is annoying, but since I melee as a Druid and have both Fae Step and Ride the Lightning, I'm always able to stay in melee range.

    Quote Originally Posted by dbe View Post
    That's just off the top of my head. They're either taking more damage, having a harder time dealing with mechanics, or losing DPS uptime (the least bad of the three). What happened between then and now? Melee used to be just fine in 1-50 dungeons.
    I think melee is definitely much more viable than it was in Chocolate. But that's just my opinion.

  15. #15
    Plane Walker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kriptini View Post
    I've meleed just fine on this boss. Telaphalon, right? He drops is ground AoE right after he does Lava Torrent, so that's when you should joust. Then the tank moves him out of the way. Problem solved.

    ...although they just nerfed him, so you don't even have to worry about that anymore.



    You can melee Tzul, just not get behind him. The tank should pull him on the bridge so that Tzul is in range of the walls but the tank is not. You'll have to melee him from the front, but he doesn't cleave, so you just won't get your "behind target" bonuses... assuming you have any.

    Gorger is easy to melee. Just pay attention to your corner and run to it when it glows. Easy.

    The Animator... Shaper... whatever guy, with all the AoEs in the room? You can melee him. The AoEs don't do too much damage, and even if they do, you can always focus on the adds instead.

    Last boss you can also melee, just make sure the tank kites the boss out of the AoEs. Not difficult.



    Meleeing him is easy. Again, as long as you joust (which is a prevalent mechanic in every MMORPG except apparently this one) the mushrooms, you'll be fine. You can stay adjacent to the boss without even getting in the mushrooms as long as you stand in the inner circle and the tank runs around the outer circle. As for getting behind the boss... that may require more work.



    I'm going to assume that this is General Thunderscar, in which case, you can totally melee him. Just run out when he does the AoE.



    Haven't found a way to melee the Throne yet, so I'll give you that.

    As far as the Forgelord, he can be meleed, but you gotta be careful. Remember that the green AoE follows the boss, so the tank will have to move him quite often. Still definitely manageable.



    Haha, chasing her is annoying, but since I melee as a Druid and have both Fae Step and Ride the Lightning, I'm always able to stay in melee range.



    I think melee is definitely much more viable than it was in Chocolate. But that's just my opinion.
    Most people won't 'work' that hard to melee..it's easier to come here and complain. There are many more mechanics that affect range players in SL dungeons, then I remember in 'chocolate' Rift dungeons..which limits specs even at range, or at least makes them less viable. Seems like, that's what the 'melee' people are complaining about..it's a bit easier at range, I'll give you that..but we're almost constantly moving/shuffling our feet, casting doesn't work so hot when you're dancing.

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