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Thread: Infinite storm critically hits No Quarter for 8628494 overkill

  1. #91
    Plane Walker Domey's Avatar
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    Ten Inches Unbuffed #1 NA Guild.

  2. #92
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoughRaptors View Post
    I've always said that people would prefer a 1-2 week delay on content then having content released as planned instead of having it be terrible and bugged out of control. I'm sure this applies in this case as well.
    Trolling Aside, and ignorance aside, I think most people including you do not Actually GET! what's going on in this situation. I will try to nicely explain what I view and others around me see as the problem in most cases.

    1). You cannot ever spend enough time writing code that you foresee all things encounter able for one. The only difference in this scenario that would have happened had they spent 2 extra weeks writing code and keeping you from playing is, You would have gotten the game 2 weeks later. That is all!

    2). For one you have to understand that most End bosses are tested internally as they don't want to give away too much of their cheese cake per say. Some select guilds to get peaks are certain phases or mechanics and very rarely entire fights. And even yet when they do everything is completely controlled and watched. These guilds are given certain sets of gear and so they are all in a position to do exactly intended dps and make certain time on phases as was planned. The internal dev team that does these testing's also as I am sure Probably has an exact set of gear they use. The reason this is important to what I am saying is because everything is in a ...so called Temperature controlled room so to speak. It could be considered good or bad but that's the way it usually is. Once something goes to live it gets hit with people with ALL kinds of various gear levels and various raid setups that can't possible be anticipated, that every single amount of time can be factored into phase changes and abilities being used right before changes (has been issue in past). And if you don't see where that is all going that leads to my 3rd point.

    3). PTS testing and Beta Testing is a VERY touchy area with game companies because even they know what I am about to say. Most all people playing beta or PTS treat it as a DEMO of the game, and that is all! Are there people that test and report bugs? Of course, assuming there isn't is just crazy. However the sheer number of people finding bugs and reporting them are not enough. The only time its enough and has been is the start of the game when the game itself got so much hype that literally hundreds of thousands of people were playing and the small % of that large number reporting bugs was enough to launch a VERY POLISHED! game. One of the best launches in history of MMO's if I say so myself. But now the with the dwindling down of the mass number of players in the game and even less going to the PTS and NOT using it as a OMG I AM NERFED!! qq battleground. And even less than those that do go reporting actual bugs or the rarity of people encountering them in such a small instance because server load and population is a non issue, is much higher chance of not enough info getting to trion to get it fixed, let alone in time.


    Some of this is fixable, some of it is not. Trion as well as many other game companies Rely on the Players to help them test and fix this stuff because it CANNOT be done alone in house, the number of people testing are too small in any circumstance. Blizzard has MILLIONS testing and still have bug issues on a daily basis and have hired some of the top level coders in the industry. I really do hate to compare to blizzard but it seems stupid not to bring that issue up.

    I SOOO Understand your frustration as you sit their on that boss and can't kill it because of issues unforeseeable by anyone let alone testers who may not have even encountered said bugs. BUT! that doesn't give any of us right to pass blame around on hearsay alone. I am not just trying to be a fanboi of trion's or SO or anyone else getting hammered for these things but merely pointing out the completely obvious points of view that I think even you would agree on if you look at them with an open mind and not preparing for a serious troll attempt back.

    Key thing here is I think we need to look for incentives maybe to lure people to the PTS to Actually test things and send back reports instead of just Throwing 18 spells at a dummy and heading back to live to tell their friends now nerfed they are in the coming patch and they may be quitting.
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  3. #93
    Prophet of Telara cwharland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelamongus View Post
    1). You cannot ever spend enough time writing code that you foresee all things encounter able for one.
    Just because it can't be perfect doesn't mean you don't put effort into getting as close to perfect as you can. The reason people are so shocked by Crucia is that the problems plaguing this boss stand as an exception to the massive number of encounters in all SL dungeons (expert and normal), 10 man, and 3.5 other bosses in the same instance. Sure they have a few issues here and there but their polish set up an expectation of quality that, unfortunately, did not persist into Crucia. So the argument of "it's not going to be perfect so just take what you can get" isn't at all something we should settle for in any way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Angelamongus View Post
    2). For one you have to understand that most End bosses are tested internally as they don't want to give away too much of their cheese cake per say. Some select guilds to get peaks are certain phases or mechanics and very rarely entire fights. And even yet when they do everything is completely controlled and watched. These guilds are given certain sets of gear and so they are all in a position to do exactly intended dps and make certain time on phases as was planned. The internal dev team that does these testing's also as I am sure Probably has an exact set of gear they use.
    This is not an accurate picture of raid testing in this game at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Angelamongus View Post
    Some of this is fixable, some of it is not. Trion as well as many other game companies Rely on the Players to help them test and fix this stuff because it CANNOT be done alone in house,
    That's not what you said in point #2?

    Quote Originally Posted by Angelamongus View Post
    Blizzard has MILLIONS testing and still have bug issues on a daily basis and have hired some of the top level coders in the industry. I really do hate to compare to blizzard but it seems stupid not to bring that issue up.
    The issue here isn't that this game has bugs and that we are some how up in arms in belief that other games don't have bugs. The frustration comes from the nature of this specific set of bugs in this specific encounter at this specific time. There's no generalization here...there's just Infinite Storm in my grill...all the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Angelamongus View Post
    I SOOO Understand your frustration as you sit their on that boss and can't kill it because of issues unforeseeable by anyone let alone testers who may not have even encountered said bugs. BUT! that doesn't give any of us right to pass blame around on hearsay alone.
    Blame is not important here, responsibility is however. There's a difference between flaming Trion for the state of Crucia and expecting them to right the situation. The former is wasted effort and the latter is a reasonable expectation. You also need to separate the knowledge of these bugs ahead of time with their resolution in the present. It's not important if developers or players knew about these bugs at this point...it is important that they are fixed.

    As far as understanding the frustration I'm not sure everyone really does understand it given the post diversity on this issue. Don't sleep for 56 hours upon SL release, stream the whole leveling process while evangelizing and promoting the game, play for 6+ hours a day to grind rep and gear, spend thousands of plat on gear, run experts (56 in the first week) with less toughness than the required amount to queue, do every daily from the moment you hit 60, and do this with 28 other people all with the express intention of downing Crucia. To be clear...the intent is not to raid FT...the intent is to clear it...to kill Crucia. Do this the entire time while in direct competition with 5 - 8 other collections of hardcore raiders...the stress did not hit when Crucia bugged...it was ever present.

    Given the competitive state of raiding right now even without a fix on the horizon we have to continue to press our luck and raid 4+ times a week for hours to down Crucia before the next raid comes out. As a guildie put it last night "There wouldn't be anything frustrating about this encounter if there was some way we effect a change...but we can't...there's literally nothing we can do." That is the root of frustration. We ran dungeons and raids with less gear than intended and made it, we hit 60 in a timely manner even with the late stage quest lines disabled, we made seals then remade seals when they changed all the mats, we did all that because there was something we could do to effect change...but now...nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Angelamongus View Post
    Key thing here is I think we need to look for incentives maybe to lure people to the PTS to Actually test things and send back reports instead of just Throwing 18 spells at a dummy and heading back to live to tell their friends now nerfed they are in the coming patch and they may be quitting.
    I disagree here. Player feedback is important and Trion benefits from it as well as the community at large. People should help the developers to some extent. But there has to be an acceptable level of functioning content for the player base to be effective testers. There is very little we can do in the Crucia situation (remember specifics here not generalization). As you pointed out before, there are a lot of bugs and it's tough to cover them all which is why content that is not readily accessible on open beta/PTS servers (like Crucia) cannot be under the auspices of players.

    Remember, you pay for this service, so when drawing the line between your responsibility in testing and Trion's you should give yourself less to do than the other party. Do I think Trion intends for all this to happen or doesn't care that it is happening? No...of course not. But simply letting this Crucia issue slide would be setting a bad precedent for future content. Have faith in Trion's ability to fix such problems and establish an expectation of polish and I'm sure they will live up to it.
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  4. #94
    RIFT Guide Writer intrinsc's Avatar
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    Dr.Angela Mongus, PhD, knower of things otherwise mystical to us mere mortals, strikes again.
    Last edited by intrinsc; 12-11-2012 at 11:59 AM.
    "I love being a father, but there are some things I miss: Silence, the absence of noise, one single moment undisturbed by the sounds of a childrens’ TV program called Doc McStuffins. There is no quiet anymore, there is only Doc McStuffins.
    — Ron Swanson, 2014

  5. #95
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by intrinsc View Post
    Dr.Angela Mongus, PhD, knower of things otherwise mystical to us mere mortals, strikes again.
    Not sure if you know this but there is an ignore feature use it please!
    Angelamongus <Afterlife> [Tank]
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  6. #96
    RIFT Guide Writer intrinsc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelamongus View Post
    Not sure if you know this but there is an ignore feature use it please!
    I enjoy your musings. It's what makes this game worth playing.
    "I love being a father, but there are some things I miss: Silence, the absence of noise, one single moment undisturbed by the sounds of a childrens’ TV program called Doc McStuffins. There is no quiet anymore, there is only Doc McStuffins.
    — Ron Swanson, 2014

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by intrinsc View Post
    I enjoy your musings. It's what makes this game worth playing.
    You say the same thing...over and over and over again everytime I talk. If you want me to continue to amuse you, then how bout you say something interesting in return ...ever, to keep me engaged else I will move on away from your constant trolls and cease to muse you...!


    And as for the other post above. ALL the encounters before crucia matter not for 2 reasons.

    1). They are just that meaningless encounters meant to throw out in en mass to the public to give them something to do while filling up some lore, and not causing casuals to become locked in some endless headgame of finding out the mechanics for hours to get some blue loot.

    2). The last boss in every raid instance in every MMO pretty much ..EVER, is their bread and butter. Take a look at every single last boss in a raid instance you have ever done from MC in wow to Akylios to Crucia. They are meant to be Intense battles, with fierce mechanics and lore telling scripting that ends a story for you the player. Its nothing like bosses before it and cannot be compared.


    The result is this.

    Right now you got this company Trion, Trying to push the edge on what can and can't be done in games and lots of people like that. As with any new technology or someone trying to do whats not been done before or doing something people say can't and shouldn't be done. Sometimes it fails! And that sucks hard. But you never get anywhere and or ever get anything cool from someone who plays the game with no aggression! Trion could EASILY make these bosses similar to previous encounters before them with ...4 mechanics or so and some minor chit chat and no moving! And probably be 95% bug free or if there were any they would likely be non game breaking. IMO the choice is to support a game company willing to push the edge and maybe falling flat a few times and in the end getting better each time and providing us with great story and raiding environments to be around. I have killed every boss in this game so far up till FT raid and I have felt great amounts of awesomeness from the sheer size and epicness of the bosses. Akylios to this day is talked about as one of the best encounters in raiding history even amongst some of the first ever guilds in wow. did it have bugs ? ya...but trion was praised for what they tried and what they accomplished in the end.

    My point is that ya you can always make things easy and not buggy or try to push the envelope and dare to try and possibly coming away with something that is hard to diagnose because of how much scripting/coding is put into it and having to examine ALL of it and then some to figure it out. Aside from a few odd bugs I have not seen any game breaking bugs in this expansion to this point, and the game breaking part of crucia from what I understand was just introduced recently because of another patch. And as evidence of other guilds killing her before said patch I am inclined to believe that to be the case. I mean FFS they had an NPC that wouldn't show up in TB because of a quest completed in AD, How does that crap even get related? Coding is weird and hard and I say give them a break for trying to do what others would not for fear of angering a few people.!

    You guys are still here, don't really care for how much longer but the point is you have enjoyed raiding in this game to this point and the only reason you are disappointed to THIS level, is because of this...need for competition between other people when the ground for the competition isn't completely level anyway. And a competitive edge is one thing but you guys (HC raiders) are so into this you are willing to subject your personalities to the rigors of the internet by putting your !@# in front of your face before you start talking junk to all these other guilds and each other mostly without even knowing anything about the situation.

    This crap has gotten to be like Black Friday man. Everyone loves their kids and wants to get them the toys they want for Christmas but is it worth MOB stomping people and killing them on the floor of walmart for your kids Optimus prime ? Seriously I don't think its gotten to the point of killing but I think you get my point anyway.
    Angelamongus <Afterlife> [Tank]
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  8. #98
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    Well thankfully I can say they are not ignoring the issue as CM_Elrar popped into our raid last night when we were working on Crucia to ask us if we had encountered any bugs. We told him we had no infinite storm bugs so far that night, but had the night before. He said that was good and asked if we had encountered the mechs being invulnerable and we said no that hadn't happened so far either. So at least they are aware of the issue.

    Unfortunately later that night the infinite storm bug did start happening again, so it is still not fixed. But it was nice to have him give us a sign of hope.

  9. #99
    Plane Walker Calmethar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakz View Post
    Well thankfully I can say they are not ignoring the issue as CM_Elrar popped into our raid last night when we were working on Crucia to ask us if we had encountered any bugs. We told him we had no infinite storm bugs so far that night, but had the night before. He said that was good and asked if we had encountered the mechs being invulnerable and we said no that hadn't happened so far either. So at least they are aware of the issue.

    Unfortunately later that night the infinite storm bug did start happening again, so it is still not fixed. But it was nice to have him give us a sign of hope.
    Aye, the most important thing in a situation like this must at least be the acknowledgement of the problem in itself and the result in form of a fix within reasonable time. It seems that could've been handled a bit better in this case and perhaps with a bit more focus and priority as well. Just a bit of a shame for an otherwise absolutely great expansion and launch :/
    - Hvabehar

  10. #100
    Plane Walker Chanalia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakz View Post
    Well thankfully I can say they are not ignoring the issue as CM_Elrar popped into our raid last night when we were working on Crucia to ask us if we had encountered any bugs. We told him we had no infinite storm bugs so far that night, but had the night before. He said that was good and asked if we had encountered the mechs being invulnerable and we said no that hadn't happened so far either. So at least they are aware of the issue.

    Unfortunately later that night the infinite storm bug did start happening again, so it is still not fixed. But it was nice to have him give us a sign of hope.
    Our Infinite Storm and various other bugs didn't really start happening until we were in the instance for about an hour. After that, it was chaos and Morseus was ready to brofist his monitor.
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  11. #101
    Prophet of Telara cwharland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelamongus View Post
    This crap has gotten to be like Black Friday man. Everyone loves their kids and wants to get them the toys they want for Christmas but is it worth MOB stomping people and killing them on the floor of walmart for your kids Optimus prime ? Seriously I don't think its gotten to the point of killing but I think you get my point anyway.
    Wait...wha? I...? So you...? And this relates...? That is like a Ross Perot analogy right there. Like left field doesn't begin to describe... ALL HAIL CRUCIA!
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  12. #102
    Ascendant No_Exit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoooKi3 View Post
    People are still on this boss? I thought an EU guild killed it last week.
    Apparently there was some sort of patch or something and the game imploded.

  13. #103
    Plane Walker Hosss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoooKi3 View Post
    People are still on this boss? I thought an EU guild killed it last week.
    Dude YOUR so mean.

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byona View Post
    i know right? they are wiping right after phase 2, how hard is it to heal through Orbital Strike Ahov?
    Apparently so hard some guilds are reflecting it bro......

  15. #105
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    Hi everyone,

    We feel that this thread has degenerated into a non-constructive discussion, so we've closed it. Please remember to keep your comments respectful and constructive at all times on our forums, even when you disagree with others.

    If anyone has questions or concerns about this thread closure, please feel free to contact us at community@riftgame.com.

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