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Thread: Give us a reason to keep queuing for dungeons when we're out of randoms

  1. #1
    Ascendant
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    Default Give us a reason to keep queuing for dungeons when we're out of randoms

    I did 4 experts last night (only had one random). Didn't see a single epic. Got 4 marks for my effort. There needs to be a bigger incentive than a 10% chance of getting the purple drop we're after.

  2. #2
    Shield of Telara aabuster1's Avatar
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    This is true.

    Normal Random bosses need to drop some infinity stones.

    Expert random bosses need to either drop infinity stones or even raid stones.

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    Ascendant Aeonblade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pricia View Post
    I did 4 experts last night (only had one random). Didn't see a single epic. Got 4 marks for my effort. There needs to be a bigger incentive than a 10% chance of getting the purple drop we're after.
    I feel like they should do it like Chocolate normals were, where you got 3 plaques off the last boss. Make the last boss in experts drop 2-3 marks/stones, not the other bosses though.

    Gearing should take a few weeks at least, but not be excruciating, or left without options for advancement.
    Last edited by Aeonblade; 12-06-2012 at 07:20 AM.
    Leondria 60 P6x Mage

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    Ascendant nemecis's Avatar
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    Just wait till you're raiding!

    Raiding isn't much better.

    3 weeks clearing the new 10-man, and I'm not even 1/2 way to buying the cheapest raid item.

    The artificial gating is simply brutal. --- Heck even the itemization makes the grind seem unfruitful. Last weekend we ran over 10 raid rifts, saw zero ... zero mage lessers, with Warriors getting more than their fair share, so much so our clerics started getting warrior tank lessers ....

    Not sure why Trion shifted focus so drastically away from what we'd grown accustomed to, but between multiple tiers of gear, multiple currencies, the scarcitity of those currencies (comparatively), and some questionable loot tables. It's enough to turn some people away from the gear grind for more than a little while.

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    Shield of Telara Eosmeep's Avatar
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    I've been grinding experts every day since I had enough hit. Sometimes the drop rates are frustrating but I'll always have the old DSM days to look back on and be glad I don't have to do that again.

    However, once I get my last two pieces from experts, I probably won't grind any more beyond the random daily which is just fine to me. I have a bunch of torvin rep to grind out next. Then I can go back to being a raid logger over the holidays and actually leave my house once in a while.

  6. #6
    Prophet of Telara
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    I wouldnt object to.. maybe an expert mark for completing the expert. Its incentive enough now that we're still early into the expansion. 100% No to the ffa raid marks tho. The late days of 1.x were joke enough to get geared. You want raid gear run raids. That's the only reason that gear exists there, so you can improve for the raid and get prepared for the next one not make it easier to run experts.

  7. #7
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    I feel like this could be accomplished with a "variable" quest type. People want to gear up in different ways, and one of the key ways to gear up presently is to grind infinity stones. I feel like you should be able to chose, one quest, from a quest-giver NPC how you wish to achieve your "grind".

    Quest: Complete 5 expert instances.
    Reward: 25 Infinity Stones

    Quest: Complete 10 Onslaughts
    Reward: 25 Infinity Stones

    Quest: Close 25 minor Rifts of level 60 or greater difficulty
    Reward: 25 Infinity Stones

    Quest: Close 15 major Rifts of level 60 or great difficulty
    Reward: 25 Infinity Stones

    Each of these could be daily quests, but you only complete one of them and once you accept a quest the others are no longer offered. This provides meaningful progression that you pick. None are necessarily easier than others depending on your situation... or less / more time consuming.

    Disclaimer: The above quests are just an example of objectives and rewards, and could be easily tweaked. Perhaps instead of a daily, there could be a slightly longer weekly that gives incentives to progress your gear via Infinity stones in other ways. Either way, it creates objectives that you pick that suits your personal preference, and provides a reason to extend beyond the "gated" path. Infinity stones give you very meaningful progression (essences, synergy crystals, gear w/ upgrade paths), so I feel this is the most logical path of added progression.

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    Prophet of Telara Delmlord's Avatar
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    I queue for the chance of getting protocal and baron's blade and to help gear up guildies. Sure marks would be nice but I'm fine with the way it is, as if it isn't easy enough to gear up.. we have options.
    Rehashed, reskinned content =/= Exciting new content
    Retired from Rift thanks to Square E getting their stuff together

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    I figure once eclipse comes out they will attach expert marks on the mobs and raid t1 marks for your daily, kinda like when hk came out... Having said that I still run randoms after my dailies are done for chance of loot. I tank and since I'm a warrior it's painful, but if I don't que then dps has to wait in 2 hour ques... Once 2.1 drops I think the ques will become shorter because the warriors will be more likely to que as tanks.

  10. #10
    Rift Disciple
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    I believe they are trying to slow us down intentionally. Not maliciously but to ensure their content creators have enough time to work. I myself am disappointed that bosses don't drop marks, since you can get into a fail pug group and down 3 bosses only to have it fall apart right near the end and miss out on anything but the cleric loot drops, since that's all that seems to drop when I'm in a party.(warrior here). Not having the raid marks from experts is fine by me, however I agree with Nem that it's pretty bad right now that you have the ability to get ~32-35 marks a week and the lowest piece is 120 marks(im not in-game so I can't remember what the lowest was). 4 weeks for 1 piece is not acceptable. Yes a new 20man is coming, which I'm going to assume will be just 4 more bosses as it would make it difficult to run through both 20m+10m in a week's time if the new 20m was more than 4-5 bosses.

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    Hey, here is your reason: to raid.

    The dungeons are fun the first time around, maybe the second. But you will have little fun queueing for random 5-mans.

    If you don't intend to raid, then maybe you shouldn't even be in the dungeons.

  12. #12
    Ascendant nemecis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahov View Post
    Hey, here is your reason: to raid.

    The dungeons are fun the first time around, maybe the second. But you will have little fun queueing for random 5-mans.

    If you don't intend to raid, then maybe you shouldn't even be in the dungeons.
    I think you missed the point --- there are folks that like to raid, that do raid, that consider themselves raiders, that have zero desire to enter experts or normals, because once the weeklys are over, there's no incentive to do so.

    Once you've got the gear you "need" to raid, whether from drops, marks, stones or crafted, you don't even "need" to run the daily quests. Folks already complain about queue times for these in LFG, just wait till even less people are in the queue because there's no reason to run them.

    Many raiders detested the fact that via experts and MMs, non raiders could get raiding gear ... I can understand this point of view, but suggest that it's a necessary evil to combat the natural attrition of the player pool.

    If it takes too long to gear up new recruits, especially once there's more raid content, then guilds start dropping off as their members are canibalized by other guilds, or players simply don't want to wait weeks to gear up new members.

    I hope this is only a reality for the short term, but the availability of marks both expert and raid is rather abysmal, or at least it seems this way so early into the xpac.
    Last edited by nemecis; 12-06-2012 at 12:14 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nemecis View Post
    I think you missed the point --- there are folks that like to raid, that do raid, that consider themselves raiders, that have zero desire to enter experts or normals, because once the weeklys are over, there's no incentive to do so.

    Once you've got the gear you "need" to raid, whether from drops, marks, stones or crafted, you don't even "need" to run the daily quests. Folks already complain about queue times for these in LFG, just wait till even less people are in the queue because there's no reason to run them.

    Many raiders detested the fact that via experts and MMs, non raiders could get raiding gear ... I can understand this point of view, but suggest that it's a necessary evil to combat the natural attrition of the player pool.

    If it takes too long to gear up new recruits, especially once there's more raid content, then guilds start dropping off as their members are canibalized by other guilds, or players simply don't want to wait weeks to gear up new members.

    I hope this is only a reality for the short term, but the availability of marks both expert and raid is rather abysmal, or at least it seems this way so early into the xpac.
    Experts are just as much part of the progression as raiding is.

    If you care enough about raiding, you will run the experts until you have appropriate expert-tier equipment in all slots possible.

    There is no need for further "incentive" after finishing the dailies. If you have the gear you require for raiding, then you don't need to return to experts. I only run them to help casual members of the guild who have just reached 60. Just like there is no incentive to run pre-SL content, there doesn't need to be an incentive to run expert dungeons outside of progressing your own gear.

    So, if you've got all the gear you need from experts, why are you worried about them? Go raid. If you lack 10/20 guild members to raid with, go grind rep for new essences and runes.
    Last edited by Ahov; 12-06-2012 at 12:26 PM.

  14. #14
    Ascendant nemecis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahov View Post
    Experts are just as much part of the progression as raiding is.

    If you care enough about raiding, you will run the experts until you have appropriate expert-tier equipment in all slots possible.

    There is no need for further "incentive" after finishing the dailies. If you have the gear you require for raiding, then you don't need to return to experts. I only run them to help casual members of the guild who have just reached 60. Just like there is no incentive to run pre-SL content, there doesn't need to be an incentive to run expert dungeons outside of progressing your own gear.

    So, if you've got all the gear you need from experts, why are you worried about them? Go raid. If you lack 10/20 guild members to raid with, go grind rep for new essences and runes.
    Again you miss the point.

    The general population had/has grown accustomed to running this level of instance to gear up not just to raid, but to progress faster within raids. By offering raid marks, or even Infinity Stones, or even just more marks than 7 daily quests a week will allow, an incentive to run these exists. (or much like original experts, offering us a way to spend marks on other items beyond gear can provide an incentive to at least continue doing the dailys every week)

    I suppose an incentive will exist once 2.1 drops and we need to grind PA again, however even that has a short shelf life.

    If experts and their usefulness stops after one starts raiding, or has progressed into raiding, then I suggest the content was poorly executed. Offering incentives to players to continue to consume this content, justifies the resources used to create them, helps bolster the potential pool of players using the LFG system, and offers numerious tertiary benefits to the playing population.

    Simply dismissing them once you've entered 10/20 player content is a rather deplorable reality in my eyes.
    Last edited by nemecis; 12-06-2012 at 12:34 PM.

  15. #15
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    Yes you're missing my point. I have every intention to raid, but with a 10% chance of getting something I can use when I run an expert, frankly it's not worth my time and I'm better off doing dailies/invasions and getting planar gear instead.

    Now, if they got rid of the blue drops from the end bosses, it would be good enough. I don't think I've seen an epic drop in my last 6 experts.

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