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Thread: Laethys as a warrior tank

  1. #1
    Telaran
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    Default Laethys as a warrior tank

    My guild recently progressed to Laethys. For most of our progression through ID, we have used warrior tanks. Now before you begin to argue "why not just use a cleric tank" - well in all honesty, I don't believe that we should have to do this if we don't want to. The fight should not force us to switch a main tank out of his main role into an off-role to accomodate an off-spec cleric tank just because his class isn't capable of dealing with the fight - despite ability as a tank.

    As most people are aware, Laethys is a fight that was apparently designed with cleric tanks in mind. We attempted a few times to use a warrior off tank (me) to grab aggro on the adds in the first phase, which has proved disasterous on many levels.

    As a warrior tank, I can grab the adds 3/10 times in a 38R/28VK spec. This requires me to taunt the Big add and quickly Thunderous leap over to the small adds and hit ragestorm/tempest, soaking up a small ammount of damage. I can then spam surge to hold aggro without hitting anything. But normally this kills me, due to the lack of proper damage mitigation in this spec. Compared to a cleric, who literally has to DoL and lol - this is a lot of hard work.
    Alternatively, I can intercept an Icar who is spamming DoLs, but this doesn't seem to work all the time. Maybe 2/10 attempts. Keeping aggro on them is an issue in this spec as i cannot attack. I can spam Necrotic Wounds on Laethys and fire off calls every 8 seconds or so, but that is about it.

    Rogue tanks probably have an even harder job than warrior tanks.

    Thus I propose the following changes to Laethys:

    1. Simply have the small adds spawn from the bottom right corner and path towards the tank who is currently tanking Laethys, meaning the off tank will simply need to AOE taunt/threat them as they come, and taunt the big add.

    2. Reduce the damage that the current aggro target takes from the Golden Horde buff. Make these mobs tankable basically.

    that's it. No changes to fight difficulty - just a little adjustment that allows warriors and rogues who wish to tank to be useful.

    I am aware that any changes made to laethys at this stage are probably futile, with SL being immenant, but perhaps this is a good reason to nerf the fight sufficiently so that warrior and rogue tanks are not useless?

    Inbe4trolls - here are the expected QQ or trolling attempts:

    - why not make maelforge warrior friendly while we're at it?
    - why not make ALL of ID warrior friendly?
    - why not make clerics/rogues as good tanks as warriors?

    answer to all - player skill can override these encounter limitations. Tanking laethys adds as a warrior is not something that any player, regardless of their skills can reliably do. Yes you can "do" it, but not without significant risk.
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  2. #2
    Rift Master Zeypher's Avatar
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    I feel your pain.

    We literally could not....at all progress on Laethys because we didn't have enough clerics, we had 3....need a puri and at least 2x senticars (couldn't even get clinging)...so there was no way of using a cleric tank.
    So we struggled for hours trying to get a warrior tank to do it.
    The biggest suggestion I came up with....was get a senticar to change to mien of leadership, when the adds spawn pop intercept on them and they blow 4x DOLs and switch back to honor...and gg adds are on you.
    When we finally got a cleric tank we got Laethys to sub 600k on first night of real progression, kinda silly.

  3. #3
    RIFT Guide Writer Redcruxs's Avatar
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    whats the point of having this amazing soul system if trion doesn't encourage us to use it once in a while?

    if you don't have clerics who can perform all of their roles (tank/dps/heal) then get better clerics

    if you don't have warriors who can perform all of their roles (tank/dps) then get better warriors


    i know this isn't what you want to hear but you're making a mountain out of a mole hill. there are many fights where it is advantageous to use one type of tank over another, and there even a few where you are limited to 1 type only, so its not like its unprecedented. lord greenscale offtank is required to be a warrior for the debuff cleanse they have.

    most guilds have 1 main spec tank of each class just for this very reason
    Last edited by Redcruxs; 09-23-2012 at 01:43 PM.

  4. #4
    Champion Cersae's Avatar
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    I am actually a huge fan of the Laethys fight for its attempt to highlight the strengths of cleric tanks outside of the mitigation debate. It's an example of how tanks can be equally powerful/useful without being equalized in mitigation. However, that's a different argument.

    On topic, I'd suggest running a Senticar cleric that swaps to MoL as adds are about to spawn, and intercept that cleric as he burns all of his convictions on DoLs. To maintain threat, you can apply blood fever cautiously to avoid killing yourself and intercept again when it's up if needed. I haven't tested this, but if I were to do it, that's where I would start.

    Edit: Just realized that was already suggested, lol.
    Last edited by Cersae; 09-23-2012 at 01:51 PM.

    "Someday, you'll sit on the throne, and the truth will be what you make it."

  5. #5
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cersae View Post
    I am actually a huge fan of the Laethys fight for its attempt to highlight the strengths of cleric tanks outside of the mitigation debate. It's an example of how tanks can be equally powerful/useful without being equalized in mitigation. However, that's a different argument.

    On topic, I'd suggest running a Senticar cleric that swaps to MoL as adds are about to spawn, and intercept that cleric as he burns all of his convictions on DoLs. To maintain threat, you can apply blood fever cautiously to avoid killing yourself and intercept again when it's up if needed. I haven't tested this, but if I were to do it, that's where I would start.

    Edit: Just realized that was already suggested, lol.

    it doesn't highlight the strengths of a cleric tank so much as laugh at the weaknesses of a warrior tank.
    Facemelt - 50 Warrior Tank (retired)
    Laviniya - 5X Cleric Tank
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  6. #6
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redcruxs View Post
    whats the point of having this amazing soul system if trion doesn't encourage us to use it once in a while?

    if you don't have clerics who can perform all of their roles (tank/dps/heal) then get better clerics

    if you don't have warriors who can perform all of their roles (tank/dps) then get better warriors


    i know this isn't what you want to hear but you're making a mountain out of a mole hill. there are many fights where it is advantageous to use one type of tank over another, and there even a few where you are limited to 1 type only, so its not like its unprecedented. lord greenscale offtank is required to be a warrior for the debuff cleanse they have.

    most guilds have 1 main spec tank of each class just for this very reason
    There is not a limitless pool of people to draw from to have in our raids. We cannot just conjour good, ID ready clerics out of thin air.
    Facemelt - 50 Warrior Tank (retired)
    Laviniya - 5X Cleric Tank
    One half of Imperium's Tank Core
    Imperium
    T1/T1, 11/11 HK, 4/4 ROTP, 8/8 ID, 4/4 PF

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Facemelt91 View Post
    There is not a limitless pool of people to draw from to have in our raids. We cannot just conjour good, ID ready clerics out of thin air.
    There is no reason you shouldn't have 1 of each tank class geared up at this point. I can tank Laethys adds and have exactly 2 pieces of ID loot and the rest HK rot stuff, 0 relic armor...so not like you need much. I like that there are fights that are suited for one type of tank over the other.

    Yes, it would be tough with only 3 Clerics...but ID would be tough with only 3 Mages too just for different reasons (at least when everything was newer).

  8. #8
    General of Telara Eclipze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluelightt View Post
    Yes, it would be tough with only 3 Clerics...but ID would be tough with only 3 Mages too just for different reasons (at least when everything was newer).

    Try pre-pre-nerf laethys progression with 3 mages and 4 clerics (1 tank). Fun times.
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  9. #9
    Rift Chaser nicold's Avatar
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    They changed melee on maelforge with the buff you get from the adds, tbh the only fight that was annoying to do in ID was Conclave.

    Yeah it kinda sucks that you have to use a cleric tank for adds on laethys, but its really not a huge deal...
    "I killed and ate a girl in 1990." - Jacob 'Daglar' Daglarson
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  10. #10
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    My guild recently progressed to Rune King Molinar. For most of our progression through HK, we have used warrior tanks. Now before you begin to argue "why not just use a mage tank" - well in all honesty, I don't believe that we should have to do this if we don't want to. The fight should not force us to switch a main tank out of his main role into an off-role to accomodate a mage just because his class isn't capable of dealing with the fight - despite ability as a tank.

    As most people are aware, Rune King is a fight that was apparently designed with mage tanks in mind. We attempted a few times to use a warrior off tank (me) to grab aggro on the prince, which has proved disasterous on many levels.


    We eventually realized that what we were doing was wasting the other 19 raiders time and attempted the encounter with the correct type of tank. In fact, we loved mage tanks so much we began to use them in every encounter. I've been stuck as a DPS ever since.
    Last edited by Robotnik; 09-23-2012 at 02:46 PM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robotnik View Post
    My guild recently progressed to Rune King Molinar. For most of our progression through HK, we have used warrior tanks. Now before you begin to argue "why not just use a mage tank" - well in all honesty, I don't believe that we should have to do this if we don't want to. The fight should not force us to switch a main tank out of his main role into an off-role to accomodate a mage just because his class isn't capable of dealing with the fight - despite ability as a tank.

    As most people are aware, Rune King is a fight that was apparently designed with mage tanks in mind. We attempted a few times to use a warrior off tank (me) to grab aggro on the prince, which has proved disasterous on many levels.


    We eventually realized that what we were doing was wasting the other 19 raiders time and attempted the encounter with the correct type of tank. In fact, we loved mage tanks so much we began to use them in every encounter. I've been stuck as a DPS ever since.
    Yep this is a great point. I don't see an issue whatsoever with a cleric tank being necessary on Laethys.

  12. #12
    Plane Walker InflatablePanda's Avatar
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    Tanking Laethys adds is actually very possible, although incredibly hard, i could do the adds without a problem inside a none max mitigation spec, but i got hit too hard. inside max mitigation spec it was very challenging and resulted in me getting maybe 1/7-8 times actually getting it right. which showed i needed a lot of luck in order to get it done twice in a row. With the nerfs i never tried it again, probably dont even need max mitigation anymore and could easily just run the voidknight spec.

    creeping death and blood fever are your friend while doing it.

  13. #13
    RIFT Guide Writer Zyzyx's Avatar
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    -redacted-
    Last edited by Zyzyx; 09-23-2012 at 07:22 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    When time allows I'll be looking at the issue with the class guys.

  14. #14
    General of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zyzyx View Post
    What isn't warrior friendly about ID? Our warriors frequently top parses or are very close to the other calling who happens to be on top of the parse.
    You just couldn't resist

  15. #15
    RIFT Guide Writer Zyzyx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vitto View Post
    You just couldn't resist
    Haha


    Quote Originally Posted by Vitto View Post
    - why not make maelforge warrior friendly while we're at it?
    - why not make ALL of ID warrior friendly?
    - why not make clerics/rogues as good tanks as warriors?
    Misread this as a summary. Sorry OP.

    EDIT: I think it is fine that they design encounters around cleric tanks ,but should make them at least "possible" for warrior/rogues to fill the roll. I also hope they would keep rogue tanks more in mind when designing encounters.
    Last edited by Zyzyx; 09-23-2012 at 07:27 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    When time allows I'll be looking at the issue with the class guys.

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