World 4th Laethys?

[shp]

Also triple combo we experienced today was also pretty awesome - red ****, orb and shockwave on add phase. ^^

[TheGrinnz]

"Random" doesnt exist in computers. Just a pre-determined set of alternatives that we're not used to or cant yet handle. And yes, I understand this sets can imitate "random" pretty well sometimes but most people confuse true RNG with " I don't yet understand the fight to a point in which I can conquer it".

There is no true random number generator in computers (that's a discussion that is quite unrelated), but Trion certainly puts randomness into fights. Silgen does not have any criteria for selecting a Heat Funnel or tether target. These random events for the most part are part of the fight and should be accounted for, and this is your point I believe. But there are also instances where random events coincide to make the fight more difficult to control, such as Runic Feedback coming up when the Revenant spawns on Molinar (a tame example I know), and blaming randomness for that difficulty is valid.

[Ianto Jones]

My current favorite is orb on you cleaving adds with barely enough time to get to the stack if you react instantly only to have shockwave snare you just short of the stack as the orb hits taking out a handful of people that suck at stacking. Double gift is a close second, the timing on it rarely lines up so they hit right after drains during a storm but when it does, Laethys makes it rain. Double shockwave is cool for cleaving warriors also.

nah man, no RNG on that gift... none at all!

[Gynxz]

There is no true random number generator in computers (that's a discussion that is quite unrelated), but Trion certainly puts randomness into fights. Silgen does not have any criteria for selecting a Heat Funnel or tether target. These random events for the most part are part of the fight and should be accounted for, and this is your point I believe. But there are also instances where random events coincide to make the fight more difficult to control, such as Runic Feedback coming up when the Revenant spawns on Molinar (a tame example I know), and blaming randomness for that difficulty is valid.

yes but all those examples are just "things that can happen". Can those "things" skew up the difficulty of the encounter? yes Can they turn a possible kill into a wipe? yes.

But RNG doesn' tstop progression even though it "might" "slow/speed up" it "slightly"

Not arguing with you since I believe we agree on the weight of "rng" for the most part. But same as It can be called out for a wipe, it should be called out for a kill. I hated guilds complaining about being able to kill Zilas one week and not being able to kill it again in 4 weeks in a row but never saying "we killed it BECAUSE of good rng and we're not skilled enough to kill it on average difficulty"

[Ahov]

Clearly poor RNG is why some guilds are killing Laethys each week and some have yet to kill her.

When you actually want to kill her, stop using the RNG cop out and learn how to avoid those situations. Or, if a nasty situation comes up, deal with it through Warding pots + Max endurance seals + max resist.

[Sebb]

Clearly poor RNG is why some guilds are killing Laethys each week and some have yet to kill her.

When you actually want to kill her, stop using the RNG cop out and learn how to avoid those situations. Or, if a nasty situation comes up, deal with it through Warding pots + Max endurance seals + max resist.

Did we really get into this conversation from a simple joke?

[Vioarr]

No Warrior should die to double Shockwave.

Still curious how many of the people pushing P2 are doing it with a setup that can get them from P1 to P3 though, cause just getting well into P2 basically means nothing if you don't have the whole raid on the right setup. Guess we'll know soon (or rather not).

RNG= Lack of knowledge or understanding of a fight. I myself call it "the overwhelming factor". Everything seems random and chaotic at start until the group, as a unit, gets comfortable with the fight. Also can be defined as "Cant, or not yet understand how to, control the fight in a way it favors me" like we do on the first 3 examples bellow.

All fight seems to have high RNG until you understand...

• How many people to keep at range in Murdantix and Aky
• How to Bard-Soak the first boss in RotP and Tank-Soak in Scryer
• The patter of the blades on the ship and from her on Rusila's fight
• Red Bubbles in Warboss
• Wave pattern in Ituziel

"Random" doesnt exist in computers. Just a pre-determined set of alternatives that we're not used to or cant yet handle. And yes, I understand this sets can imitate "random" pretty well sometimes but most people confuse true RNG with " I don't yet understand the fight to a point in which I can conquer it".

http://www.addictguild.com/index.php...,big&poll=true

[Gynxz]

http://www.addictguild.com/index.php...,big&poll=true

Ur linking that old achi to prove you can be lucky and get World First Laethys while not able to achieve Maelforge?

Glad we agree that "rng" goes both ways. Thought you were busy hiding/dodging powerstone questions still :P

[No_Exit]

My joke has started what is probably the most amusing forum convo about RNG in a while.

[Durango]

RNG= Lack of knowledge or understanding of a fight.

No not really.

"Random" doesnt exist in computers.

And you would yet again be wrong. Random has existed in computers since the first one was made back in the days of vacuum tubes.

[Gynxz]

Originally Posted by Gynxz
"RNG= Lack of knowledge or understanding of a fight."

No not really.

"Random" doesnt exist in computers."

And you would yet again be wrong. Random has existed in computers since the first one was made back in the days of vacuum tubes.No not really.

On my first quote... you missed my point taking my argument too literal. In case it was taken that way, my argument wasn't directed at anyone here. It was rather a general shout at people that yell "****ing RNG" every time something goes wrong. More often than not, ignorance about an encounter is described as rng. Like when people die to Atrophiniou's double Explosion in xRD or mobs cast Glacial Shield faster than usual.


Now on the second one.....

Literally speaking: The fact that computers are programmed to emulate random, or pseudo-random, doesn't mean it truly exist. Computers are programmed to generate what looks like a random number the same way they are programmed to generate the beloved ogre we call Shrek. I hope you dont believe he exists too.

If there still any doubt we can continue thru PM's since this is not the threads purpose.

[Ajax1114]

Literally speaking: The fact that computers are programmed to emulate random, or pseudo-random, doesn't mean it truly exist. Computers are programmed to generate what looks like a random number the same way they are programmed to generate the beloved ogre we call Shrek. I hope you dont believe he exists too.

If there still any doubt we can continue thru PM's since this is not the threads purpose.

Technically, yes, even an extremely complicated algorithm for producing random output will never compare to physically rolling a die or just walking around outside. But that doesn't mean that unexpected circumstances cannot be simulated with a computer program.

For example, I can make a very simple computer program that puts out a number from 1 to 10. Although the computer's choice on number will never be truly "random," I doubt that any human being is going to consistently guess the output of the program. In other words, the simulations are sufficient enough to be excusable in some circumstances; if you put enough possibilities into the program - in the case of the number program make it 1 to 1,000,000 - you make it near impossible for a human being to cope with it correctly every time.

I can learn how to handle 1 through 10. But what about when 1 coincides with 3 and 7? Or 2, 5, and 10 meet? That's really the bottom line to me: People up on their pedestals of victory can talk all they want about how you can handle every situation as it occurs, but that requires a strict combination of experience and preparation that leaves little room for human error.

[Durango]

Now on the second one.....

Literally speaking: The fact that computers are programmed to emulate random, or pseudo-random, doesn't mean it truly exist.

Your comprehension of the basics of the technology used to make computers is lacking. In fact, the fundamentals of computers are to attempt to reduce the inherent randomness of the base components that are used to make them.

Computers are programmed to generate what looks like a random number the same way they are programmed to generate the beloved ogre we call Shrek. I hope you dont believe he exists too.

I have a fairly good understanding of both the quantum dynamics and the theoretical physics of what are used to make modern day computers. To say that randomness doesn't exist in computers is to be ignorant of the field.

[mo0trix]

Whilst I've never been a believer in rng as such, I have to say the subjugation + orb was certainly as close as it could possibly be.

I'm sure most guilds use 1 range 1 melee grp for stacking on the orbs, which is exactly what we did. Laethys however isn't like any other boss I know of when it comes to mechanics... the timing of them seems to differ from fight to fight... some times they are good for the group, sometimes they are bad... this one, was bad.

It could of been avoided had we probably stacked closer to the boss... however we'd of left ourselves open to other mechanics to kill us and quite frankly, who could predict that this wipe would of happened?....

We'll get it down for sure, but as i've seen no guilds are 1-shotting it, don't tell me it's got no luck factors built in.

[Durango]

Technically, yes, even an extremely complicated algorithm for producing random output will never compare to physically rolling a die or just walking around outside. But that doesn't mean that unexpected circumstances cannot be simulated with a computer program.

Dice generally have less randomness than even some poor implementations of PRNGs.

For example, I can make a very simple computer program that puts out a number from 1 to 10. Although the computer's choice on number will never be truly "random," I doubt that any human being is going to consistently guess the output of the program. In other words, the simulations are sufficient enough to be excusable in some circumstances; if you put enough possibilities into the program - in the case of the number program make it 1 to 1,000,000 - you make it near impossible for a human being to cope with it correctly every time.

Randomness can be done via software and has been for years with a wide variety of input stimulus from picture to keystrokes to access times. The issues are always of quantity vs bias. Even simple stimulus can give you a perfectly random stream as long as your don't need a large quantity of bits. The issues only really crop up as far as something like the NIST cryptography randomness requirements when you want both a large number of random bits (aka Gb/s+) and extremely low bias.

As a side note, pretty much all random sources/stimulus aren't used directly because their biases aren't in line with the largest user of random bits which is cryptography which wants a very even bias.