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Thread: Why the same ID marks across tier makes sense

  1. #1
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    Default Why the same ID marks across tier makes sense

    It's a mechanism by which raiding players of undertier content are accelerated towards the highest-tier content at a constant rate. The goal is to catch raiders up to the current focus of the game, hence why all tiers shunt to ID instead of only one of the tiers.

    This is the first time you can see dev intention, because before we didn't have more than a beginning, middle, and end tier of raiding.

    Going forward, the first, second, third, and fourth raiding tier will shunt to the 5th. This helps new players catch up to the content of focus. It helps populate middle-content raiding. It gives players more content to play rather than raidlogging.

    This is a better system than the first shunting to the 2nd, 2nd shunting to the third, third to the fourth, etc. That's not a good long term plan, because ultimately that will cut off new players in the middle content regardless.

    You see the same shunting in crafting. All current focus is meant to shunt players to ID at a constant rate.

    You still progress the fastest if you are actually progressing in ID.

    Players should play ID for the challenge. Not the prestige of being doted on in town with gear that stands above the masses. If the rage at PTS changes was for more than people simply wanting that gear to stay on an elite few as long as possible, it'd be reasonable.

    But that is contrary to the ultimate health of Rift, and it's just not reasonable.

    Players should honestly stop, think, and critically answer their own loaded questions before posting. If you can't see why they would give the same amount of marks independent of tier, stop. Think. Then if you honestly can't come up with a reason before you post, ask us. We'll tell you why if you can't figure it out.

  2. #2
    Plane Walker
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    I think the bigger question will be the ratio of the marks acquired in ID itself compared to the other ways you can get them, rather than the fact their being given out in all tiers of content.

    With current HK setup, you can get the Greater Marks in all sorts of fashions, but the relic drops only are attainable by doing HK itself. So the masses can aquire HK gear while working towards the content, but the best gear (barring some fubar itemization in some cases) is reserved for clearing the endgame content.

    Personally, I think it's a solid design, providing gear is itemized properly. Dunno why people get upset about it. I mean, stop and count how long it takes to get those pieces without doing HK...
    ~ Cameela ~
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  3. #3
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    no........

  4. #4
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    My gripe isn't about non-raiders getting ID gear; it's about the need for actual raiders having to clear outdated content for new gear.

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    You clearly don't have to do old content. If you want to raid log, raid log.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by PFalcon View Post
    You clearly don't have to do old content. If you want to raid log, raid log.
    Sorry, wasn't this thread aimed at the "hardcore" players? I assumed it was.

    Any hardcore competitive guild will be running the old content each week in some form or another (even if it means outside of normal raid times and force-pugging it) to get the ID marks and gear up as efficiently as possible.

  7. #7
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    So what's the problem? This is how the rest of the game plays as well. We raid 2, 3, 4 days a week then jack around the other 5, 4 or 3 days in undertier to dink around. And it's pretty generally fun time for a sophomore MMO.

    If you expected an 80 hour workweek in ID come april, and can't cut 84 to do the content to "catch em all" maybe it's BEST if you backed off beating face against ID so hard.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by PFalcon View Post
    So what's the problem? This is how the rest of the game plays as well. We raid 2, 3, 4 days a week then jack around the other 5, 4 or 3 days in undertier to dink around. And it's pretty generally fun time for a sophomore MMO.

    If you expected an 80 hour workweek in ID come april, and can't cut 84 to do the content to "catch em all" maybe it's BEST if you backed off beating face against ID so hard.
    You realize they are releasing a new dungeon... and then requesting you spend more time doing old content for progression. Even you should be able to see how backwards that is without being your normal contrarian self.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by AquaSquirrel View Post
    You realize they are releasing a new dungeon... and then requesting you spend more time doing old content for progression. Even you should be able to see how backwards that is without being your normal contrarian self.
    Why not? The only people who aren't happy to do that are those spending 7 nights a week in ID. I know exactly why you don't want to be bothered with under-tier content. You need every minute of the day spent trying to get ID firsts.

    I know we have about 60 players total who are going to do that, but it's hardly worth not boosting the weekly play patterns of many more players and accelerating new players up to relevant content just so you few can afford to never stop ID'ing.

    They're not even the first to challenge what you consider "progression" to mean in a MMO. This is not a novel concept at all, and people of your persuasion have been saying this same thing for years. I don't think you have enough of a base to dictate what is and isn't paid progression activity in Rift to be honest. It very well can be decided that under-tier is still opportunity for real progression, and that by no means is "backwards."

    It's not backwards. It's actually...ironically...progressive.

  10. #10
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    You all have to SURELY see how unreasonable it is to keep a little progression from other players who are happy to call ID quits for the week after 18 hours, just so a few of you are completely free to beat face against ID for 5 hours a day, 7 days a week for world firsts....

    I raid 4 days a week max. I could raid more, but I don't want to raid with a bunch of people who could raid more to be honest, and I don't think they deserve monopoly on progress just because they can overclock it. On off nights you'll see me beating the absolute snot out of johlen with some random group that shouted for cannons. And it's a pretty fun time.

    Is it progression? That's the hardest Johlen's been hit in a long time I guarantee it. It's fun. Progression definition can stick it.

  11. #11
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    The hardcore players will do it regardless. Raid loggers, that is, people who don't have enough time to play any time other than raid time, such as myself, will be forced to spend half of that time doing oudated content. I got Ultimate Dungeon Hero in MAY. I got all the 10/20 man conquerors as early as possible What do I want to keep doing these dungeons a year later for?

    I ask for new content, and I'm behind in the footrace if I choose to spend my time doing new content until I have 75% of the dungeon on farm as the alternative is more marks (as proposed) in equal or lesser time.

    I'm sure anyone who posts in D&R forums will have it all on farm long before anything new is near being released and be at the top or near the top on their server, but it's just, in my opinion, making progression more of a grind than less, when you include PA, repeating old dungeons ad nauseum, and best itemization being spread across multiple tiers due to poor planning you end up doing more non-progression content than actual progression content.

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    A raidlogger is always in a risky situation. You can't ask all of us to bend to your definition of progression just so you can fit all YOU consider progression into...how many hours do you plan on spending in ID again next month?

    Don't say 7 days a week. Don't even say 5.

    If it's 4 days a week, what footrace are you even in in the first place? You're back here with me, man. If it's 7, you're no raidlogger. You just don't want to for ulterior reasons.

    What you want to do, perhaps, is beat face against ID 7 days a week for what is it...2 weeks? 3 weeks? What are your rules? Then coast. I know how you all play. You do it every game. You take off work, beat your heads against it for 3 weeks straight, then raidlog for 8 months and brag about it.

    And that's kindof slacky if you ask me, to put that much value on frontloaded tryharding and not let everyone else play this progression cool, steady, and even.

    A more tempered approach would do some of you some good. Can't devote that much time to a game? Then don't be going into ID 7 days a week to begin with.

  13. #13
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    Some of you all are too focussed on playing the game of the game. You're too busy hustling the method that'll get you the best gear looks in town the fastest, and the world firsts to link in 50 chat, to take advantage of the community Rift offers.

    That hustling method that you learned, or you were taught from someone who learned in EQ...doesn't necessarily deserve all the progression attention in 2012. I know that method is how 'cores have operated for a decade.

    Time to change it up. You are not too good to delve into undertier for a little progress. If you are...you are free to not dirty yourself and sit in your ivory tower.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by PFalcon View Post
    It very well can be decided that under-tier is still opportunity for real progression, and that by no means is "backwards."
    What a gem.
    Rogue DPS BiS | Critical Hit | Soft Cap: 1187 | Hard Cap: 3163
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  15. #15
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    Non-raiders able to get a ID set with 8 months of experts? fine by me, by then the next 2 tiers of raids will be out

    Hardcore raiders crying about having to spend 1 or 2 hours per week clearing the T1 raids and a night clearing HK if they want to optimize their 60 hours of ID progression per week? fine by me, I still enjoy the old raid content anyways

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