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Thread: Darkling Skull nerfed ?

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    lgw
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    Default Darkling Skull nerfed ?

    So we noticed this first on the weekend during a xpert run with three DS, where we never ever could stack past two. Further testing at both dummies and full raid in all sensible as well as obscure combinations confirmed:
    Darkling Skull and similar buff procs from trinkets and the like don't stack past two anymore.
    This has been stealth changed sometime in March, as we definitely had 3+ DS procs in February still. And that stealth nerf is an explicit violation of Trion's own policy to only perform documented changes.

    In that regard... any ideas on optimal DS saturation for a 20man raid ?
    * 2 per camp (cf Darktide) min, sure
    * 2,3,4 ? on stacking fights like Sica
    * +1, +2 on spread fights lika Murda or Zamira
    Last edited by lgw; 03-29-2012 at 01:30 AM.
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    I'm not sure what exact other procs you're referring too.
    Examples would be handy so I can check.

    It's late so I wasn't able to get anyone else online but I was definitely getting the buffs from DS, AMoP, SC Synergy Crystal and UALW at the same time.

    I'll see how many Darkling Skull stacks I can get in raid on Thursday.
    Nope.

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    lgw
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primalthirst View Post
    I'm not sure what exact other procs you're referring too.
    Examples would be handy so I can check.

    It's late so I wasn't able to get anyone else online but I was definitely getting the buffs from DS, AMoP, SC Synergy Crystal and UALW at the same time.
    Anything that has the ability to buff others in the ground/raid.
    Each of the different buffs only ever stacks up to two per effect and no further.
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    Well if the stack limit is just on the buffs themselves, not buffs in general then it's going to put a hardcap of 8 on the number of Darkling Skulls in a raid. Mathematically they're still BiS if you can get the buff on 2 or more others.

    With the Warrior AP scaling changes Darkling Skull is only getting better.

    Unless the ID epics are substantially better than the Word of Pain I can't myself replacing my Darkling Skull until ID relics, I'm gunning for the Maelforge book, that thing looks boss.
    Last edited by Primalthirst; 03-29-2012 at 04:47 AM.
    Nope.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Primalthirst View Post
    Well if the stack limit is just on the buffs themselves, not buffs in general then it's going to put a hardcap of 8 on the number of Darkling Skulls in a raid. Mathematically they're still BiS if you can get the buff on 2 or more others.
    A single skull could buff significantly more than 5 people due chain procs. Possibly the whole raid, on encounters like Sica, although we never gathered hard data on saturation, as until recently it always was more = better.
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    Shield of Telara Mayakov's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primalthirst View Post
    Well if the stack limit is just on the buffs themselves, not buffs in general then it's going to put a hardcap of 8 on the number of Darkling Skulls in a raid. Mathematically they're still BiS if you can get the buff on 2 or more others.

    With the Warrior AP scaling changes Darkling Skull is only getting better.

    Unless the ID epics are substantially better than the Word of Pain I can't myself replacing my Darkling Skull until ID relics, I'm gunning for the Maelforge book, that thing looks boss.
    There was a CM with the laethys relic off hand on which blew word of pain out of the water on the PTS. It had 430 something sp with a 65 sp proc. I don't remember if it was a raid wide buff though. I remember my friend saying the name of it was "The Skull Killer", in reference to getting people to stop using a T1 relic so it's very possible it'll be a raid wide buff. I think Word of Pain is being changed to a raid wide buff though. I haven't seen confirmation on that, however. Anyone else heard that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Primalthirst View Post
    Well if the stack limit is just on the buffs themselves, not buffs in general then it's going to put a hardcap of 8 on the number of Darkling Skulls in a raid. Mathematically they're still BiS if you can get the buff on 2 or more others.

    With the Warrior AP scaling changes Darkling Skull is only getting better.

    Unless the ID epics are substantially better than the Word of Pain I can't myself replacing my Darkling Skull until ID relics, I'm gunning for the Maelforge book, that thing looks boss.

    Well the ID test relics are called "Darkling Skull Killer" lol.
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    RIFT Guide Writer Angryweasel's Avatar
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    Yeah it was a ninja nerf remember them talking about it some time ago.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lgw View Post
    A single skull could buff significantly more than 5 people due chain procs. Possibly the whole raid, on encounters like Sica, although we never gathered hard data on saturation, as until recently it always was more = better.
    I may be revealing my ignorance here but that is news to me, I assumed it could only ever be up on 5 targets at once, I do know it has a 5s ICD.

    If we assume most Mages have 60% crit chance with raid buffs (most will be slightly higher but this makes the math easier.) Then it's going to chain proc a hell of a lot, I would do the math but it's been a long time since I did any probability and I don't want to be ignorant twice in the one post.

    The question that most needs answering to solve the problem of saturation is whether or not the buff preferentially affects targets with no existing DS buff or is equally likely to override an existing one as to affect a target with less than 2 stacks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayakov View Post
    There was a CM with the laethys relic off hand on which blew word of pain out of the water on the PTS. It had 430 something sp with a 65 sp proc. I don't remember if it was a raid wide buff though. I remember my friend saying the name of it was "The Skull Killer", in reference to getting people to stop using a T1 relic so it's very possible it'll be a raid wide buff. I think Word of Pain is being changed to a raid wide buff though. I haven't seen confirmation on that, however. Anyone else heard that?
    If it were 430Sp with a 65Sp self-proc then it is equal to Darkling Skull if it procs on 4 other people. Since apparently it chain procs, according to Lgw then I would still be likely to use Darkling Skull over that Laethys Book in the majority of situations.

    I've also heard rumours that Darkling Skull was being changed to not stacking at all and/or that Word of Pain was becoming a multi-target buff. But those rumours were over a month and a half ago and nothing has appeared on the PTS so it's still speculation in my mind.

    Quote Originally Posted by Angryweasel View Post
    Yeah it was a ninja nerf remember them talking about it some time ago.
    I've not heard about it at all, but I haven't really been paying much attention to my buff bar in a while, more not trying to fall asleep in Hammerlol. WTB more content.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pooshonmyshoos View Post
    Well the ID test relics are called "Darkling Skull Killer" lol.
    That sounds like Trion's sense of humour. I approve.
    Last edited by Primalthirst; 03-29-2012 at 05:59 AM.
    Nope.

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    Shield of Telara Mayakov's Avatar
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    It having 38 focus won't be a real issue in ID but the next tier of level it will. I'm not sure how many stacking fights there will be in ID but I don't see the skull being excessively useful in ID unless everyone is stacked on top of each other like you would be on sicaron.

    This is me being a bit selfish but I refuse to use my skull anymore after I got the word of pain. I don't think it was ever Trion's intent for the darking skull to make it past HK into ID. It's a good thing it got ninja nerfed. I hope they never introduce another sp raid-wide buff on a relic again.

    If a rogue dagger had the same proc, there would be no way rogues would be using it past HK because of the lower DPS it would potentially have if it came from the same tier. Correct me if I'm wrong, but rogue daggers with procs don't work in the off hand, it has to be in the main hand. Expecting a mage or, in an extreme case, a cleric, to keep using it 2 tiers later is ridiculous.
    Last edited by Mayakov; 03-29-2012 at 06:05 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayakov View Post
    It having 38 focus won't be a real issue in ID but the next tier of level it will. I'm not sure how many stacking fights there will be in ID but I don't see the skull being excessively useful in ID unless everyone is stacked on top of each other like you would be on sicaron.

    This is me being a bit selfish but I refuse to use my skull anymore after I got the word of pain. I don't think it was ever Trion's intent for the darking skull to make it past HK into ID. It's a good thing it got ninja nerfed.
    Using it over an ID offhand only costs you 37 Focus, which is 2 Radiant Sharp Runes, only a very minor stat loss considering it's mainly crit which is irrelevant.

    I feel like perhaps when they nerfed the stacking the buffed the range on the buff because about a month ago I noticed the proc range seemed to be higher than before.

    I don't expect to carry DS into T4, that would be ludicrous. But it's looking like it could still be a reasonable piece of gear by then. Darkling Skull is the entire reason I don't have an Akylios relic yet
    Passing on Captured Tsunami's, Words or Pain and Staves of Crazed Whispers like a boss!

    I feel that if it chains perhaps saturation point could be as low as 3 DS's on most fights.
    Last edited by Primalthirst; 03-29-2012 at 06:12 AM.
    Nope.

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    Shield of Telara Mayakov's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primalthirst View Post
    Using it over an ID offhand only costs you 37 Focus, which is 2 Radiant Sharp Runes, only a very minor stat loss considering it's mainly crit which is irrelevant.

    I feel like perhaps when they nerfed the stacking the buffed the range on the buff because about a month ago I noticed the proc range seemed to be higher than before.

    I don't expect to carry DS into T4, that would be ludicrous. But it's looking like it could still be a reasonable piece of gear by then. Darkling Skull is the entire reason I don't have an Akylios relic yet
    Passing on Captured Tsunami's, Words or Pain and Staves of Crazed Whispers like a boss!
    I can understand a mage using it if they're primarily an archon(who has excessive SP anyway) or a chloro. But a dps mage shouldn't be passing on a word of pain or staff of crazed whispers. Will you want to pass on that maelforge off hand when it drops? It sounds like you will. I commend you for being there for the raid and providing an extra sp/ap buff. But after awhile, I just don't see the point to ask all of your mages to let relics rot because the skull is so awesome. I'm getting off-topic now so I'll shutup XD.

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    Shield of Telara Mayakov's Avatar
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    edit(damn edit timers): Assuming all ID epics and relics have 65 focus, you'll have 475 focus going into the next tier. Assuming the next tier focus requirement is 500, with a skull, you'll only have 448 focus going into that tier. You would need all runes to get you to 523 focus. That's a loss of 27ish sp from runes. Not only do you lose that but you're missing out on 140ish sp from an ID relic upgrade. You would need 4-5 skulls to make up for that. If what you're reporting is true, there's no way you can get that many procs up enough to make up for the SP loss.

    Currently you'll only need two focus runes to garantee no resists for ID. But you're still losing 60ish sp. You only need 2 skulls in the raid to make up for that. So yes, skulls in ID will be viable. I would only use them on the archon and chloro(s) though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayakov View Post
    edit(damn edit timers): Assuming all ID epics and relics have 65 focus, you'll have 475 focus going into the next tier. Assuming the next tier focus requirement is 500, with a skull, you'll only have 448 focus going into that tier. You would need all runes to get you to 523 focus. That's a loss of 27ish sp from runes. Not only do you lose that but you're missing out on 140ish sp from an ID relic upgrade. You would need 4-5 skulls to make up for that. If what you're reporting is true, there's no way you can get that many procs up enough to make up for the SP loss.

    Currently you'll only need two focus runes to garantee no resists for ID. But you're still losing 60ish sp. You only need 2 skulls in the raid to make up for that. So yes, skulls in ID will be viable. I would only use them on the archon and chloro(s) though.
    You forgot one focus slot, we have 8 slots (or 7 with a 2H weapon having twice the focus) so in full ID gear you'd have 520 focus (or 493 with a darkling skull)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethanol View Post
    You forgot one focus slot, we have 8 slots (or 7 with a 2H weapon having twice the focus) so in full ID gear you'd have 520 focus (or 493 with a darkling skull)
    I knew that seemed off. This is why I'm not a math major lulz. I actually forgot 3 slots like a total derp. But still you'd need 3-4 skulls to make up for the loss of the sp you'd you have from passing on an ID relic.

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