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Thread: ID Rogue tank question

  1. #1
    Shadowlander Seshat's Avatar
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    Default ID Rogue tank question

    Are rogue tanks going to be in the same situation in ID as we were during HK launch? I'm just wondering if I should be passing all my hexed pieces to my warrior/cleric tanks. No qq, just wondering.


    thanks

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    Champion of Telara Quietmode's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seshat View Post
    Are rogue tanks going to be in the same situation in ID as we were during HK launch? I'm just wondering if I should be passing all my hexed pieces to my warrior/cleric tanks. No qq, just wondering.


    thanks
    NDA bro.

    But with all the justicar and rogue changes that have been happening in the past few months, they are intending them all to be capable at tanking in the next raid instance. Of course there will always be a min/max choice to each encounter.


    Cleric Tank

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    General of Telara
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    Didn't a dev confirm that ID rogue gear would have deflect on it a while ago?

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    Shadowlander Seshat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quietmode View Post
    NDA bro.

    But with all the justicar and rogue changes that have been happening in the past few months, they are intending them all to be capable at tanking in the next raid instance. Of course there will always be a min/max choice to each encounter.
    I understand the NDA and of course i wouldn't want anyone to violate it to answer my question. I have seen a lot of speculation around the forums from players in guilds i know are ID testing and they are all pointing out how the hp discrepancy between rogues and warriors along with rouge tank magic mit versus warriors is going to be a big issue with all the non physical fights in ID. Again, this isn't meant to qq about warriors > rouge tanks but simply gauging how to best prep my guild for ID.

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    Shadowlander Seshat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethanol View Post
    Didn't a dev confirm that ID rogue gear would have deflect on it a while ago?
    I must have missed that dev convo but from what i have seen on PTS thus far the Rouge tank gear is the standard dodge/parry with an emphasis on parry for some reason.

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    Ascendant Ianto Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethanol View Post
    Didn't a dev confirm that ID rogue gear would have deflect on it a while ago?
    That has yet to materialise. I doubt itemisation is complete. Even if it's true, Riftstalkers need a whole lot of ID gear before they become competitive in terms of block.

    Honestly I think threat will be an issue before mitigation, especially if there are fights with multiple tanks on separate targets. Riftstalkers will still be less desirable than a Cleric or a Warrior just due to the inherent class limitations -- low HP, no mob mobility, no ranged tools, no useful raid buffs. There will probably be a token RS fight with high spike damage that makes cooldowns attractive, but even in that area Rogues are not at that great of an advantage anymore.
    Last edited by Ianto Jones; 03-29-2012 at 07:53 AM.

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    Plane Touched Khuj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethanol View Post
    Didn't a dev confirm that ID rogue gear would have deflect on it a while ago?
    A dev did indeed clarify that Deflect+ would be added to ID gear. I just need to find the post now...

    Edit: Found it!

    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    We do not currently plan on adding deflect to existing items.

    We are looking at / planning to add it to future tiers of rogue tank items.

    ~Daglar
    Second page of "Rogue tank itemization in 1.7 w DPS items"
    Last edited by Khuj; 03-29-2012 at 08:05 AM.

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    Shield of Telara Hellebron's Avatar
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    The problem we will face most is mitigation I think. Shadow guard was a band aid and doesn't scale at all. Rift guard doesn't scale. Endurance scales poorly.

    I think Riftstalker will be fine again in ID initially. But as tanks gear up, Riftstalker will be less and less desireable. Unless something is changed so we actually scale with gear, we're just going to have to hope for another band aid patch.

    Edit: Deflect won't break Riftstalker in ID. Mitigation and HP will. Count on it.
    Last edited by Hellebron; 03-29-2012 at 08:06 AM.

  9. #9
    Plane Touched Khuj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellebron View Post
    The problem we will face most is mitigation I think. Shadow guard was a band aid and doesn't scale at all. Rift guard doesn't scale. Endurance scales poorly.

    I think Riftstalker will be fine again in ID initially. But as tanks gear up, Riftstalker will be less and less desireable. Unless something is changed so we actually scale with gear, we're just going to have to hope for another band aid patch.

    Edit: Deflect won't break Riftstalker in ID. Mitigation and HP will. Count on it.
    If they're centering ID around RS and Clerics in 1.8, then we should be fine. However, with the OP reaver build, that will shifts things to Warrior's favor as it always has. Which, I don't mind, so long as they gear thing around us...

  10. #10
    Ascendant Ianto Jones's Avatar
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    Eh. RS is getting a decent buff in mitigation, especially magical, so it won't be that far off the Reaver builds. Deflect and HP are where it falls short.

  11. #11
    Plane Walker Rizz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ianto Jones View Post
    That has yet to materialise. I doubt itemisation is complete. Even if it's true, Riftstalkers need a whole lot of ID gear before they become competitive in terms of block.
    Acutely, not too far behind warriors.

    In 51 rs / 8 rng / 7 bard (which is probably the spec I'll use in 1.8 due to lack to false blade, 10% hp and 2% mitigation is probably better to have then 5% doge, imo at least, side steps gonna be a huge loss tho :<).
    I'm somewhat around 2k behind our warrior tank, who has similar gear as me (BiS except shield for him and OH/Ranged for me). However I stack dex from runes, PA (been slacking on PA, can get another 200ish hp from PA) and essences. If I had been using end runes instead (mostly chest/shoulder) and with the PA, I'd be 1.5k hp behind him raid buffed. Change the essences to more endurance heavy instead of dex and I'll probably be just about 1k short of him (while keeping decent dex). And all that would be possible if we just had some deflect/dex increases on ID gear.

    Thanks to soft cap (just below rating 925 for block IIRC), I'll most likely be hitting in early ID gear. I'm current (granted with dex heavy runes and fairly dex heavy essences) at 870 block rating raid buffed (~42.5% chance). I believe the warrior tank is at 1300 (or so?) rating, which was something like 49% IIRC. Both of us are getting an additional 20% from buffs (6 pally vs. improved guarded steel). Granted I'm quite behind on absorb % (around 63% on the warrior or so vs. 55% on me). So difference is:

    Warrior have 2k more health, 6-7% high block chance, ~8% more absorbed then me.

    Which probably isn't too bad, compared to the status we were in when HK opened up. We are probably in a better position then clerics also, however I'm slightly unsure how the 1.8 changes gonna affect their efficiency in ID)

    But like I said, some ID gear and it would be more like:

    Warrior have 1k more health, 4-5% high block chance, 7-8% more absorb then a rogue.
    (Rogue at 930ish deflect, in endurance heavy essences, runes and gear in general, warrior maybe at 1400 which (thanks to the soft cap on block, and the DR on absorb isn't that much more then 1300)).

    Which imo, could be just fine, based on we got a number more cooldowns, while they having slightly better block. Wouldn't mind getting our cooldowns Off-GCD tho.

    (Niether softcap nor hardcap of block absorb works, and Trion don't want to fix it. source: http://forums.riftgame.com/public-te...ml#post3606388)
    Last edited by Rizz; 03-29-2012 at 03:54 PM. Reason: Typos
    Rathi@Gelidra <Invictus>
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