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Thread: Dungeon challenge suggestion

  1. #1
    RIFT Community Ambassador Radak's Avatar
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    Default Dungeon challenge suggestion

    After a night of talking on mumble about how hard and fun the T2 expert used to be when we where still wearing T1-T2 expert gear. They where really challenging and asked a lot of your group. However now a day most people are so well geared that even master mode dungeons are like a walk in the park. And I think I speak for a lot of the HK relic geared people that having some insanely hard 5man content for the offnight might be a nice way to spend your free time.

    And so I came up with the idea of dungeon challenges.
    It would be special dungeon(s) that allow a lot of difficulty changes. Currently we only have expert and mastermode and we used to have expert T1+T2 and then mastermode.

    My suggestion would be dungeons that would have 10 difficulty levels that can be changes while in the dungeon (while not in combat). The difficulty level only effects the bosses and not any possible trash in the dungeon.
    The difficulty also doesn't affect possible drops and doing it at a higher difficulty would only earn you a much higher amount of XP, possible titles, pets and other misc stuff.

    Now how you should see the difficulty steps.
    Difficulty 1: Around the current expert mode dungeons difficulty
    Difficulty 2: between the current expert mode and mastermode dungeons
    Difficulty 3: Around the current mastermode difficulty
    Difficulty 4: A decent step up from mastermode as mechanics are more punishing
    Difficulty 5: A real challenge for people geared in full raid T1 gear
    Difficulty 6: A challenge for people in full raid T2 gear
    Difficulty 7: A real challenge for people in full relic raid T2 gear
    Difficulty 8: Would require almost full ID gear to clear and only extremly good people would be able to clear it in the current gear. (guilds like SO, Voodoo ect could clear this in T2 raid gear)
    Difficulty 9: Don't even think about it.
    Difficulty 10: Are you out of your mind.

    (difficulty 8-10 would be impossible/near impossible to do even in full ID gear and are there if you think you are really good and as a step up for when the next raid difficulty is introduced)

    Also the tuning doesn't have to be to tight as they offer no real rewards aside from the much higher XP on higher difficulty's and are only there really to challenge yourself. So they wouldn't have to be nerfed at any point in time (unless 1 boss in much much harder then another one on the same difficulty).
    Also depending on the final amount of XP they would have a 3day or 1week lockout.

    Now as to would you could expert.
    Every 2-3 difficulty increases the boss gets a new mechanic and at all increases the health and damage of the bosses increase. (they all have a enrage timer to prevent cheesing the fight at higher difficulty's)

    So lets make an example.
    Enraged spawn of Mealforge. (Dragon in a locked room with about the same size as the room of Scarn in DD.)
    Difficulty 1: ~275k health
    mechanic 1: Fire breath of high tank damage (simple heal it)
    Mechanic 2: Spawns a fire add with about 20k health that if not killed fast explodes and deals AoE damage (won't oneshot but can be deadly).

    That's it a simple tank spank fight with some movement involved
    Difficulty 2: ~400k health
    Increase health and damage and the add will kill the party if not killed in time (about 30k health now)

    Difficulty 3: ~500k health
    Same mechanics as difficulty 2
    Mechanic 3: A random member (not the tank) gets a debuff that ticks for some fire damage and deals AoE damage on everyone around them and the size increase over time (like cerebral bore on akylios). The debuff lasts for 10sec and the ability has a 30sec cd (cd is needed for difficulty 5)(the player has to run away to prevent the others from taking to much damage)

    Difficulty 4: ~700k health
    same mechanics as difficulty 3
    The debuff on the player now deal a very large amount of players to others and will really quickly kill them if the player doesn't get away near instantly.

    Difficulty 5: ~900k health
    Same mechanics as difficulty 4
    mechanic 4: the debuff now leaves an icon on the group similar to sicaron if the player with the debuff moves into it it wipes the group. Standing in it without the debuff causes you to take damage over time. The icon has can be killed but this will take some time and is only needed if you are at the edge of possible

    Difficulty 6: ~1M health
    Same mechanics as difficulty 5
    Now spawns 2 adds at the same time instead of 1

    Difficulty 7: ~1M health
    The icon is no longer killable. Near the end of the fight the icons take up a fair part of the room. And the players can't spread out enough for the debuff. What has to be done is spread out near the edge of the icons. The player that gets the debuff moves to the next placement spot and the players without the debuff have to move into the icons to prevent getting hit by the AoE from mechanic 3 (remember the debuff dealt damage). After the icon is placed all players must make sure to move out of the icons again to prevent a instant kill when the next debuff is given.
    (killing it at this difficulty would drop a vanity item that allows you to place a icon anywhere similair to the gsb chronicle bracken and your lookin at about half a level of XP here)

    Difficulty 8/9/10: Not sure jet feel free to think something up remember these are meant to be really challenging.

    Tomorrow if I have some free time I will try to think of another example.

    But feel free to give your thought about the general idea of dungeons like this. Or even think up your own example. Remember the approximate difficulty scaling I posted when making them up.
    Cleric tanking: Justicar guide | Justicar spreadsheet and item list
    Defence is as much a part of war as offense, the shield as important a tool as the sword.

  2. #2
    Plane Touched WilkesW's Avatar
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    Love this idea, easy solution to make players have more options in game and ever since the nerf on Akylios people have complained alot about nothing in the game being hard so why not raise the bar to high if you want that.

    I still think a higher difficulty should be rewarded by more MOA tho, so there is even a greater xp-bonus for the end-game players.

    But make this happen, dooooo it!!

  3. #3
    Telaran
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    So you want Trion to balance 10 new difficulty levels for every single 5 man? Uh no, that would take them forever for almost no reward.

    IMO the best idea would be to copy what Blizzard are doing with dungeon challenges in MoP, you get forced to use a gearset as if that content was current (eg for T2 you would have a full set of what was previously T1 expert) and then you would have to complete the dungeon in certain highly challenging times for different levels of rewards. Rewards being special mounts/special armors etc.

    Gives a new challenging form of 5mans with special unique rewards without any new balancing required. Win, win.
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  4. #4
    Plane Touched WilkesW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikesglory View Post
    So you want Trion to balance 10 new difficulty levels for every single 5 man? Uh no, that would take them forever for almost no reward.

    IMO the best idea would be to copy what Blizzard are doing with dungeon challenges in MoP, you get forced to use a gearset as if that content was current (eg for T2 you would have a full set of what was previously T1 expert) and then you would have to complete the dungeon in certain highly challenging times for different levels of rewards. Rewards being special mounts/special armors etc.

    Gives a new challenging form of 5mans with special unique rewards without any new balancing required. Win, win.

    So you are saying that you don't think its a good idea cause its to much work for Trion?
    The rewards are great; greater challange, competition between guilds, more xp/cooler vanity items the higher you go. It's a unique "system" and I think it's an amazing idea for out of raid content.

    What u mentioned we kinda already have with the achivement system, but without the rewards and no less-gear req.

  5. #5
    RIFT Community Ambassador Radak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikesglory View Post
    So you want Trion to balance 10 new difficulty levels for every single 5 man? Uh no, that would take them forever for almost no reward.

    IMO the best idea would be to copy what Blizzard are doing with dungeon challenges in MoP, you get forced to use a gearset as if that content was current (eg for T2 you would have a full set of what was previously T1 expert) and then you would have to complete the dungeon in certain highly challenging times for different levels of rewards. Rewards being special mounts/special armors etc.

    Gives a new challenging form of 5mans with special unique rewards without any new balancing required. Win, win.
    One of the tricks of this would be that it doesn't have to be perfectly balanced between the blessed as you can switch between every boss and find the difficulty your group can achieve.
    Also I think making them new dungeons so they aren't limited to the current expert. And they can simple add 1 at a time.
    If they made them new dungeons it could even be made into a kind of arena where the ascended challenge each other. That way they could be made without trash and they bosses don't have to fall into a single theme. They could even give each bosses a separate lockout so you can do one boss at a time and see how hard you can do it.
    Cleric tanking: Justicar guide | Justicar spreadsheet and item list
    Defence is as much a part of war as offense, the shield as important a tool as the sword.

  6. #6
    Champion
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    I really like this idea. Instead of gimping yourself and your stats to make encounters more difficult mechanics would be added that would require people to *gasp* think and pay attention. I for one miss the days when dungeons were actually challenging. I remember my first time in King's Breach taking about... 3 hours and trying to heal our squishy nub tank while running out of those spikes not knowing where they were coming from next. Now I just kind of stand there because there is no reason to avoid the spikes at this point and tanks (even new) handle damage a lot better. Granted taking off some gear would make the fight more challenging but... not really. It would still be the same mechanic. Maybe if the spikes gave you a bleed debuff that increased damage over time or something?

    I don't think it is asking Trion too much to introduce content that isn't faceroll outside of raids. And it's not like they would be forcing people to participate so there'd never be a reason to nerf it.

    +10 OP you have my vote.
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  7. #7
    Shadowlander Lasur Arkinshade's Avatar
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    I support this. I crave challenge and master modes, as much as I love them, get outgeared quite quickly and I do believe funneling people into three difficulties (normal, expert and master) is always a recipe for whining.

  8. #8
    Rift Chaser SarahR's Avatar
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    They should just make a single room dungeon arena-style and throw in Laethys, Maelforge, Akylios, Greenscale (all at once, of course) and announce Transcendent quality items drop if completed.

    Pinatas of the dragons for lower difficulty versions perhaps with much worse loot dropping.

  9. #9
    Plane Touched WilkesW's Avatar
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    /bump for hope

  10. #10
    Rift Disciple
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    awesome idea, bump!
    There is no rogue dev. Prove me wrong.

  11. #11
    Prophet of Telara cwharland's Avatar
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    I like the idea but the skill gradient is WAY to fine. Three levels maximum rather than 10 =).

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