+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: Whatever happened to CC?

  1. #1
    Rift Disciple Xehanort's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    109

    Default Whatever happened to CC?

    Okay so sorry for doing another WoW comparison but here it goes... I am not sure if it was the guild i was in or what but I remember there being a lot of CC needed (or highly suggested) when doing Raids in WoW. There were a ton of pulls that mages would have to CC a target before we pulled and we dealt with them later on (otherwise it would most likely be a wipe). I really have not seen much (if any) CC used in RIFT (apart from the mini boss in HK) and was wondering if anyone misses that?

  2. #2
    RIFT Guide Writer Angryweasel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    920

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Xehanort View Post
    Okay so sorry for doing another WoW comparison but here it goes... I am not sure if it was the guild i was in or what but I remember there being a lot of CC needed (or highly suggested) when doing Raids in WoW. There were a ton of pulls that mages would have to CC a target before we pulled and we dealt with them later on (otherwise it would most likely be a wipe). I really have not seen much (if any) CC used in RIFT (apart from the mini boss in HK) and was wondering if anyone misses that?
    There was a lot of trash in HK that needed to be squirreled before the nerfs. Especially archers where annoying and could only be interrupted with a pull in from a tank.
    _______****Warrior - Yes it's me!****_________

  3. #3
    Rift Disciple Savage Henry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    145

    Default

    People got geared that's what happened.
    Quote Originally Posted by intrinsc View Post
    They won't let anything OP go to Live.

  4. #4
    Champion of Telara Quietmode's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    1,214

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Xehanort View Post
    Okay so sorry for doing another WoW comparison but here it goes... I am not sure if it was the guild i was in or what but I remember there being a lot of CC needed (or highly suggested) when doing Raids in WoW. There were a ton of pulls that mages would have to CC a target before we pulled and we dealt with them later on (otherwise it would most likely be a wipe). I really have not seen much (if any) CC used in RIFT (apart from the mini boss in HK) and was wondering if anyone misses that?
    I wouldnt say i missed that, but CC is really just a crutch until your tank/heal can outgear the damage taken. Or its used to avoid a mechanic (Rangers in HK, or sheeping the melee add with the Sorcs in HK since it prevents them from casting devouring shadows).

    Every expansion in WoW CC was needed a bit for most groups, but as the general populace gears up it just becomes a PULL ALL THE THINGS scenario.

    I do like the idea behind sheeping mobs that synergize well with other mobs and make things dangerous, but most people think of trash as just a roadblock to the next boss and not an encounter itself.


    Cleric Tank

  5. #5
    Rift Disciple Xehanort's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    109

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Quietmode View Post
    I wouldnt say i missed that, but CC is really just a crutch until your tank/heal can outgear the damage taken. Or its used to avoid a mechanic (Rangers in HK, or sheeping the melee add with the Sorcs in HK since it prevents them from casting devouring shadows).

    Every expansion in WoW CC was needed a bit for most groups, but as the general populace gears up it just becomes a PULL ALL THE THINGS scenario.

    I do like the idea behind sheeping mobs that synergize well with other mobs and make things dangerous, but most people think of trash as just a roadblock to the next boss and not an encounter itself.
    Maybe if they added some sort of unique reward system and upped the ante on the trash mobs this could happen? No idea what it could be but at the moment trash really is just a time waster to get to the next boss. Making it more difficult and having some sort of unique rewards might make people hate it less?

  6. #6
    Plane Touched
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    289

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Quietmode View Post
    I do like the idea behind sheeping mobs that synergize well with other mobs and make things dangerous, but most people think of trash as just a roadblock to the next boss and not an encounter itself.
    But, as we well know, if a developer dares to <gasp> make a raid without trash, they'll get lambasted for that, too, so they can't win.

  7. #7
    Plane Touched
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    252

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Xehanort View Post
    Maybe if they added some sort of unique reward system and upped the ante on the trash mobs this could happen? No idea what it could be but at the moment trash really is just a time waster to get to the next boss. Making it more difficult and having some sort of unique rewards might make people hate it less?
    Trash drops are nice. Fairly sure some of them are only 1-2 places off BiS. I could be wrong, however, as I've been inactive in the high-end raiding arena for a while.

  8. #8
    Plane Walker
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    413

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Xehanort View Post
    Maybe if they added some sort of unique reward system and upped the ante on the trash mobs this could happen? No idea what it could be but at the moment trash really is just a time waster to get to the next boss. Making it more difficult and having some sort of unique rewards might make people hate it less?
    To be honest...

    Trash loot is equal too, or better than most boss drops.
    Trash difficulty is equal to, or harder than, most hk boss encounters.

    Seriously your more likely to wipe on trash than you are bosses these days. The bosses have become so trivial after the amount of practice put into them, where as trash isn't taken seriously by anybody... an individual messing up a shatter bomb is more likely to wipe a raid than most bosses, only place where all the raid needs to be as aware is Sicaron placing contracts, or Grug not running insanely far ahead of the group.

    Any other fight in hk a random dps could mess up a mechanic and die, and have 0 effect on the raid's kill.

    and for that reason I think trash is more difficult than murdantix, zilas, matron, vlad, rune king, estrode, garau, darktide

    I guess there are a couple ways people could cause wipes on Akylios, so I can't include it on the list yet... mainly because it doesn't feel right... but seriously, any more nerfs at all and trash will be more difficult than akylios.
    Doesn't matter what is put here, someone is going to @#%^& about it, regardless of what it is.

  9. #9
    Rift Disciple Xehanort's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    109

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AWHavoc View Post
    To be honest...

    Trash loot is equal too, or better than most boss drops.
    Trash difficulty is equal to, or harder than, most hk boss encounters.

    Seriously your more likely to wipe on trash than you are bosses these days. The bosses have become so trivial after the amount of practice put into them, where as trash isn't taken seriously by anybody... an individual messing up a shatter bomb is more likely to wipe a raid than most bosses, only place where all the raid needs to be as aware is Sicaron placing contracts, or Grug not running insanely far ahead of the group.

    Any other fight in hk a random dps could mess up a mechanic and die, and have 0 effect on the raid's kill.

    and for that reason I think trash is more difficult than murdantix, zilas, matron, vlad, rune king, estrode, garau, darktide

    I guess there are a couple ways people could cause wipes on Akylios, so I can't include it on the list yet... mainly because it doesn't feel right... but seriously, any more nerfs at all and trash will be more difficult than akylios.
    There may be truth in this but I do not fully believe it. And yes the items are close to BiS but they rarely drop. 1 every other raid is hardly rewarding.

  10. #10
    Plane Walker
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    413

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Xehanort View Post
    There may be truth in this but I do not fully believe it. And yes the items are close to BiS but they rarely drop. 1 every other raid is hardly rewarding.
    We've been averaging 4-5 in my runs recently, certainly not spectacular numbers, but it's still happening.

    RNG for drops is a little ridiculous, I've literally never seen a mage weapon drop in a T2 raid...

    So many 10/11 and 11/11 runs w/o a single mage weapon.. makes me sad.
    Doesn't matter what is put here, someone is going to @#%^& about it, regardless of what it is.

  11. #11
    Ascendant Nadili's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    BC, Canada
    Posts
    1,857

    Default

    Watching the preview vid for ID the Adam talks about splitting up the raid for specific tasks to me this says CC will be needed I could be reaching just what I took from it.

    When you called me delusional I laughed so hard I almost fell off my unicorn!!

  12. #12
    RIFT Guide Writer Gyle's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    2,009

    Default

    Part of the problem with CC in Rift is that everyone AoE's constantly. Tanks constantly AoE for threat (Rogue tank's literally can't even get close without hitting something), all DPS AoE's, and half of them use AoE spells or abilities in thier single target rotations, even healers AoE quite regularly. This makes it nearly impossible to CC anything unless it is either dragged far away, or CC'd where it stands and the rest of the pack pulled elsewhere. But in Rift, most things don't even get "pulled" we just tank it where it is and AoE it all down.


    The design of Rift's classes, abilities, and playstyle just are not conducive to CC. Long gone are the days of pulling 4 mobs, having your enchanter mez 3 of them and just killing them one at a time. You can't even choose how many mobs you want to pull anymore, they all come in linked packs and are often so far away from each other as to preclude pulling more than one pack at a time (especially in raids).


    Trash gets AoE'd down in Rift, that's just how it's done, no sense in wishing it was otherwise.
    Hastati (50 warrior), Tsar (50 cleric), Tsaritsa (50 Mage)
    Guides: 51 Bladedancer, Bloodstalker, Nightblade
    DPS Rogue <Trinity>
    5/8 ID; HK Conqueror

  13. #13
    Champion
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    522

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Xehanort View Post
    I really have not seen much (if any) CC used in RIFT (apart from the mini boss in HK) and was wondering if anyone misses that?
    Most games are made to be easy these days, Rift is no different (in fact most instances are much easier than other games I've played, not helped by the fact it is one of these games where tanks can simply suck up eveything in sight relatively easily), CC requires players to pay attention and communicate, apparently this is not popular, mindlessly AOEing is.

    It also requires designers to think a bit more when creating instances, which apparently is a bit too much like hard work and less appealing than putting out copy and paste instances with largely one formula and using a few boss mechanics from the same small pool over and over again.
    Last edited by Flimble; 03-14-2012 at 02:11 PM.

  14. #14
    Champion
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    513

    Default

    I'd rather see a heavier emphasis on moving out of stuff, interrupts, cleansing, and purging. They're far more active and enjoyable than picking off immobile targets one by one at a snail's pace.
    Greybriar Guardian Bard

+ Reply to Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts