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Thread: Expert Dungen Kicked my Butt. Need a plan.

  1. #1
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    Default Expert Dungen Kicked my Butt. Need a plan.

    New 50 here (rogue), Hit at +215. Went out with the guild, died maybe 12-15 times in 2 hours, way more than the others.

    Some of it was the tank unable to keep aggro all of the time. Some of what was me being new. But given that I died way more than the others, I have to accept most of the blame.

    So, if Experts are too hard for me now, what paths are available to gear up for them or be better prepared? Will doing normal dungeons eventually yield enough epics to gear up? Or do I need to save plaques from quests, chronicles etc? Other ways to gear up?

    Any suggestions welcome, and thanks.

  2. #2
    Ascendant mo0trix's Avatar
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    More specific info required.

    What dungeon
    What killed you (trash/bosses)
    Why you pulled aggro off tank (bad tank, or you're using a bad build and using taunts?)

    215 hit doesn't sound like you're in dire need of better gear to run experts... i'd say you're a little overgeared if anything.

  3. #3
    Plane Walker Kolfinna's Avatar
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    For most expert dungeons: if you die, it's because of mechanics. If you have enough hit, a smattering of blues and greens should get you through almost every expert encounter. It is, unfortunately, a case of "learn to play", either for yourself or your party.

    For pretty much everything: don't stand in front of the mobs. They tend to cleave the entire area in front of them. If you're new to the MMO scene, and the dungeon scene in particular, then this isn't something you've had to worry about. Cleaves are the number one killer of non-tanks in dungeons.

    For trash: focus on the mob the tank is focusing on. Tank aggro is presently really, really high, and there's no reason you should be pulling mobs off the tank. But if you are, it'd help to make sure you're focusing on the same mob as the tank. I can understand pulling aggro off if you're on mob C while the tank's off dealing with A and B, but not in any other situation. Oh. Unless you're using Guardian Phase, or its ilk. Don't use that.

    For bosses: don't stand in fire. Individual bosses have their own mechanics, but generally speaking, they all have some sort of goop or fire or lasers you need to avoid. No amount of gear will let you live if you're swimming in lava. For ondividual bosses, I suggest either A) asking, or B) using Zam. If you were to keep dying on, say, Calyx the Ancient, you could look up the boss and read a brief summary of what to expect, and maybe watch a video!

    Gear: you have multiple options of gearing up, now. Normal Abyssal Precipice, Charmer's Caldera, and the chronicles should get you well on your way, and you can fill in your missing pieces with cheap crafted gear and stuff from the planar gear vendors. You don't need a full set of epics to tackle an expert; just mostly-not-green gear, and enough hit. But it sounds like you have way-plenty of gear.

    As a "fresh 50 rogue", I suggest having someone craft you a Spined Compound Bow, if you don't have something better, going 51 Marksman, and spamming Fan Out for AoE and Swift Shoting into a Finisher for Single Target. That way, you're at a safe range, are immensely mobile, and you'll have plenty of time to observe mechanics.

    There are a couple fights where more gear would help, but that's generally relegated to the very last boss of a given instance. If you're dying to other bosses, it's more likely a "What did I do wrong" than a "Sorry guys, my gear sucks".

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by mo0trix View Post
    More specific info required.

    What dungeon
    What killed you (trash/bosses)
    Why you pulled aggro off tank (bad tank, or you're using a bad build and using taunts?)

    215 hit doesn't sound like you're in dire need of better gear to run experts... i'd say you're a little overgeared if anything.

    Dungeon with most deaths was Iron Tomb.
    AOE from (don't know boss name). I did learn to stay farther away eventually.
    In it adds would pop, it was my job to get them, and they would swarm me and kill me. Tank was busy in a room with the boss (the one that says "I need bones") so I would have to run around the corner out of aoe range, thats often when adds would pop.
    Another dungeon (can't recall if iit was CC or AP) had a boss (giant wormy thing) where fire would break out everywhere and green deathly stuff would appear - died a bunch in there too.

    I did work pretty hard to get my hit to 215. But I am newb so it didnt do me much good.

    Using taunts as a rogue? Didn't know I had taunts...Was most using fanout and the other MM AOE, and various combo builders and crit shots for singles.

    So yeah a lot of this could be chalked up to me being new, and a some to the tank. But my DPS was lower than it should have been (so I know I need better gear), and I know better gear would help with survival a bit, and of course knowing the dungeons better.

  5. #5
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    There are a couple fights where more gear would help, but that's generally relegated to the very last boss of a given instance. If you're dying to other bosses, it's more likely a "What did I do wrong" than a "Sorry guys, my gear sucks".

    Sound advise. BTW I currently have the Rune Carved Bow bought off AH.

    I guess your point "it's more likely a "What did I do wrong" than a "Sorry guys, my gear sucks" hits home. That is probably mostly it. Maybe I will try dungeons on normal for a while just to get the hang of the many I haven't done, or only done once. Thank you.

  6. #6
    Plane Walker
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    Quote Originally Posted by riftyman View Post
    Dungeon with most deaths was Iron Tomb.
    AOE from (don't know boss name). I did learn to stay farther away eventually.
    In it adds would pop, it was my job to get them, and they would swarm me and kill me. Tank was busy in a room with the boss (the one that says "I need bones") so I would have to run around the corner out of aoe range, thats often when adds would pop.
    Another dungeon (can't recall if iit was CC or AP) had a boss (giant wormy thing) where fire would break out everywhere and green deathly stuff would appear - died a bunch in there too.

    I did work pretty hard to get my hit to 215. But I am newb so it didnt do me much good.

    Using taunts as a rogue? Didn't know I had taunts...Was most using fanout and the other MM AOE, and various combo builders and crit shots for singles.

    So yeah a lot of this could be chalked up to me being new, and a some to the tank. But my DPS was lower than it should have been (so I know I need better gear), and I know better gear would help with survival a bit, and of course knowing the dungeons better.
    Bonelord Fetlorn (I think his name is) from Iron Tombs, no adds should spawn unless you are going for an achievement, if you LoS his emotes adds don't exist.

    Only boss I know of being a giant worm is in CR, not CC or Ap. There it's a simple spread out during the downpour mechanic, avoid fire.

    Things like not running from Cyclorax on Emote, not running from the boss at the end of IT on Emote, not getting in the bubble on the second to last boss in It on emote, Not LoSing first boss in IT on emote, can really hurt fresh 50s.

    My advice, go read the strats.
    Doesn't matter what is put here, someone is going to @#%^& about it, regardless of what it is.

  7. #7
    lgw
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    To be honest, I don't see much of a problem here.
    You died a few times, but you admitted yourself that you could improve. As the others suggested, ask or search the forums / wikis / websites (for raids use riftstrats.com). Being new isn't to blame on anyone, as long as he's willing to learn.

    Concerning your DPS, 51 MM is a solid start -- maybe go the Rogue forums for a more detailed guide. Might not be the best spec, but it's a good alround spec with big utility. Let's you concentrate more on the important things, as you said above -- encounter mechanics.
    Something you could do in the meantime to head for the practise dummys and just run your rotations, so it becomes more intuitive to you.

    But keep your hopes up, as long as you're willing to reflect your performance and learn and improve, you'll become a good raider one day.

    PS: One thing the others mentioned... after a pull, give your tank 3-5s if he seems to have problems keeping aggro. Some inexperienced tanks don't have their openers tweaked out for max aggro.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by lgw View Post
    But keep your hopes up, as long as you're willing to reflect your performance and learn and improve, you'll become a good raider one day.
    I concur with this statement. To me, that fact that you posted this thread puts you leagues ahead of a lot of others.

    Not to but, but... Because of the gear changes in 1.7, that 215 hit is probably closer to 150 pre-1.7 gear wise. I say this because my two crafter ALTs were just shy of 200 the day before 1.7 hit, and zoomed up to 280-ish after. So your gear probably could improve some. I have no idea how much money you have, or time, but I'd recommend you:

    1) Run T2s for gear, even if you die a lot. You can run the normals too, but the upgrades probably won't be worth it.
    2) Get the crafted 4 piece set if you can afford it.
    3) Get the Ember Isle storyline quest pants
    4) Look at the planar merchant's ring and (hat? I forget what item they sell) get that if you can if it is an upgrade.
    5) Make sure you have appropriate runes on your equipment. Unless you are going into Hammerknell, you can stop worrying about HIT at 220, so concentrate on your other stats.
    Last edited by Bluejaye; 02-15-2012 at 09:48 AM.

  9. #9
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    And just because this past weekend I ran into some people in the LFG that didn't...

    6) Make sure you have a 6 slot core and run raid rifts to fill it (or buy them with inscribes). Raid rifts also aren't bad for gear upgrades, too.

  10. #10
    Telaran Isolus's Avatar
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    I agree with Blue, it's very nice of you to look for improvements already. Very good.

    If you're going to use the looking for group-tool, it might help to ask the group for tacts if you don't know them. Atleast if they use "readycheck" before pulling boss, you can add a: "Tacts please?" perhaps.

    Nice summary by Kolfinna.

    Yanatho L65Cleric - Hardcore social. Rawr



  11. #11
    RIFT Guide Writer Redcruxs's Avatar
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    god... i've been having deja vu of this thread for months now.... i'm glad someone finally posted it

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